Coaching Through iPEC’s COR.E Dynamics: 100% Energetically Engaged

This episode includes our interpretations of copyrighted works done by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching or iPEC. 

Cristina Amigoni: You can flow through life to where you're supposed to go. Or you can build blocks and walls and make it really hard to get there.

Alex Cullimore: Welcome to Uncover the Human, where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives. 

Cristina Amigoni: Whether that's with our families, co-workers, or even ourselves. 

Alex Cullimore: When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.

Cristina Amigoni: This is Cristina Amigoni. 

Alex Cullimore: And this is Alex Cullimore.

Both: Let’s dive in. 

“Authenticity means freedom.”

“Authenticity means going with your gut.”

“Authenticity is bringing 100% of yourself not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you.”

“Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself.”

“It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep-rooted and true.”

“Authenticity is when you truly know yourself. You remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be.”

“It's transparency, relatability. No frills. No makeup. Just being.”

[EPISODE]

Alex Cullimore: Welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human. We are here today just wrapping up our series on iPEC's COR.E Dynamics and our interpretations of all of the disciplines and influencers that come with it. And today is the final of 10 disciplines; 100% Energetic Engagement. This is kind of, I don't know, the capstone of all disciplines. This is where it all comes together. 100% energetic engagements. Where do we want to start on this one? 

Cristina Amigoni: There's a lot. I love the quotes. Maybe we should start with the quotes.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. There's some great quotes. To reference our quote book. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Let's find our quotebook. Some of the quotes on 100% energetic engagement is playing full-out. And some of the quotes that remind us of that that we highlighted were – let's see.

Alex Cullimore: The Einstein one, "We have to do the best we can." That is our sacred human responsibility.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Yes. We like that one. We also like Eleanor Roosevelt. Yeah, "You have to accept whatever comes. And the only important thing is that you meet it with the best you have to give." 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. I think that's a great one, because it really does talk about – 100% energetic engagement, we all know there's going to be ups and downs in life. But it's about being able to access all the energy that is available to you. And so, we talked about things like influencers and putting the influencers in your favor. And working in environments that work for you. Social environments that work for you. Adding in all of the different – making sure you're managing your own spiritual influencers and engaging with your own personal values. Being able to have your mental space clear, emotional space clear and ready for that. All of these things help you and boost the amount of energy that's available to you. The more you optimize all that, the more you get into being able to access and use all the energy you have, which is why I really love that Eleanor Rosevelt quote. Because it's about meeting it with the best you have to give. It's not meeting with your best. Because that can lead to all kinds of shame about like, "Well, I could have done this better yesterday." Or, "I wish I was here." But that's not where we're at. We are where we are. And we can give it the best that we have at that moment.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. And I love how it ties to the showing up at that moment. Being willing and able and motivated to do whatever you're about to do no matter what and no matter – and Sterling would love the fact that we use no matter what in this. But, really, it's that having commitment. No doubt. No fear. Nothing holding you back. And it goes beyond the outlook and the attitude. It really includes the actions and the intentions of your actions. And following those intentions.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. When you say 100% energetically engaged, you're not splitting your energy with your doubt, and your worry, and your fear. You have your energy in the task at hand. We have hopes. We have desired outcomes. And we have the understanding that we don't control the outcomes, but we can control our input into it at the moment. And so, that engagement, it's not about giving 110% all the time. It's about giving what you have and knowing what you have. And doing your best to continue to stay on top of that. Knowing that that's always an up-and-down task.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Yeah.

Alex Cullimore: Brings me to one of my other favorite quotes, "Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's the quiet voice at the end of the day whispering, "I will try again tomorrow." By Mary Anne Radmacher. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, that's a great one. And the last one that I have that I highlighted years ago when I went through this the first time is from Dale Carnegie, "Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seem to be no hope at all." That's when that doubt goes away. That outside validation. That, "What would other people think? What would other people do?" goes away, because you're completely bought in into just trying.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. I think you shared this one. I can't remember what the original source is, the idea that if you're feeling like you're in the dark, you're looking for the light. Sometimes you are the light. Sometimes you might be the one that people are there looking for. And that is our strength and our guidance. And the thing that can be very difficult to see when we feel like we're just looking around and seeing darkness, maybe we haven't looked inward.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. And looking inward, it goes back to the seven levels of energy. It's like if you can get to your overall energetic makeup and you can look at the combination of all the seven levels of energy and understand like, "How do I understand in them and bring them with me?" Level seven – and you're utilizing all the levels, they're not eliminating. It's not like, "Oh, if I'm experiencing level six or I'm tapping into my level six, all the other ones are not part of it." It's an encompassing journey of all the levels. From one through five are part of level six. And so, all the levels from one through seven are part of level seven. 

And so, if you have all of them and you can understand how they influence your perceptions and your reactions, then you can choose. And that's where the choice of being 100% energetically engaged is, is when you can actually choose what you're doing. How you're reacting? How you're looking at things? What you're thinking?

Alex Cullimore: And, naturally, it's easier said than done and most important when it's hardest.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Exactly. Yeah, which is why they're disciplines.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. And this is why we talk about things like the mastery mindset rather than the performance mindset. It's not about every single is moment trying to be the best that you ever have been. It's about being able to see the trend. Focus on the long term. And know that you're working towards mastery. And that will be a bumpy road and that. But it comes with things like trusting the process. Making the conscious choices to continue. Knowing that when all the other influencers start to get out of whack, that there's still paths to take or there's a time to take a break and giving yourself the right space to get the right long-term trajectory. I always equate that one kind of in my head. Both to growth mindset and to Brene Brown's quote, that it's more important to get it right than to be right. It's not about this moment. It's about long-term. The intention being set. And continuing to focus and commit to that intention. 

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. Yes. And to follow Brene Brown's quotes, the other one that comes to mind when thinking about being 100% energetically engaged and the fact that all these are disciplines, and they are hard, and they're most needed when it is the hardest to actually do that and practice them is the choosing what's right. Not what's comfortable and easy. 

Alex Cullimore: That's the challenge.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes.

Alex Cullimore: And then giving ourselves the space of knowing that there are times when life will surprise us. Life will have that sudden left turn. And that there will be times where we don't have the energy we thought we were going to have available. All of our plans have gone out the window. And that something new has taken its place. And being able to be okay with that and know that we can accept that. And now this is our reality. And here's our next conscious choice. And here's how we can trust the process. We're still on the intention. And we still have that full commitment without the worries and the fears. And we can understand that we just have that option without attachment solely to the outcome. Even if we have a desire outcome, if we're moving towards one, understand that we're not attached to it. There's so many great quotes in this.

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, there are. Yes. Well, and as you mentioned intention and outcome, it's interesting, because it just dawned on me that it's that having deep understanding of what those are. Because it's easy to have an idea of what our intention is, or what we think our intention is, or what we think the outcome we want is. And then when life throws the curve balls, that's when – and we realize we're not going to get to that, our intention is now invalid and we're never going to get to the outcome that we thought we wanted, is how do you do the inner work to figure out like what is the real outcome here? What is it that I'm trying to get to? And so, what is my intention at the core of it all? Not the surface stuff. At the core of it all, what is my intention? And that's always different than what we thought it was, which is why it's hard to let go of the expectations. When you have an outcome and you're like, "This is my intention. And I'm going to go down this path." And then the curveball happens and it's just not going to happen. It's not. There's no way you're going to get to where you want it no matter how much intention you have. And so, that's when realizing like, "Well, what's the real outcome then? Is that the real outcome?" Because if it's so easily destroyed by external life, then is it the real outcome? 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Is that really the intention? And what is the real core nature of that intention? Why did we have that in the first place? And that's a great place for like exercises like the five whys, the five what fors? I want to do this. What for? So that I can get this. What for? So I can get then. And really dig down to what's the important part of it. Because we can get so caught up on the externals. And it's entirely natural. 

There's actually a cognitive bias called the arrival fallacy, which is the often an easy held belief that we will be happy or satisfied whatever when we are there. It's when we have arrived. And wherever there is, whatever that outcome or that goal is. We can forgo anything else, because when we get there, everything will be solved. 

And unless we've done that inner work you're talking about and understand that intention, that's a dangerous game to play. It's something that is external. And it misses some of that presence in the moment because you're trying to live in a future moment. You're living in what could be. And then you're attaching to that. 

And if you haven't done that intentions – you do things like, "Oh, I want to get that promotion like." Okay. But why do you want to get that promotion? What is really the goal here? I want – do you want more money? That's great. That means that promotion is not the only way to do that. 

Cristina Amigoni: What are you going to do with the money? What does money give you? Again, that's not – it's still not the outcome. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. What is the real need for that? Yeah. What's the real need? 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. What's the real need? 

Alex Cullimore: Oh, so that I can do this. Okay. Why is that important? Well, so that I can do this. I want to be able to travel. Okay. Why is that important? Well, I want to be able to have these experiences for my kids. This experience is great. Why is that important to you? Really getting to the core. Then helps you structure everything you're doing and understand this much more in a mastery mindset. Then each obstacle is just, "Okay, what's the path to the intention?" If it turns out not to be this road, it doesn't mean there's no roads. It just means this wasn't the one.

Cristina Amigoni: It does make it easy to accept that this road wasn't the one once you realize like what do I actually want here that I am not getting? 

Alex Cullimore: And it makes a lot easier to find more productive ways to pursue what that is you actually want. And to stand up again when, inevitably, life throws a curveball.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Indeed. It's also interesting, because when you think about it from universe point of view, we manifest. And one of the manifestations techniques or ways to do it is to declare it openly to people so that the universe can hear and the universe will deliver. And then when the universe deliver and you're like, "Well, that's not what I wanted." And like, "Well, were you clear with what you wanted? Did the universe really not deliver?" Because in times we go back and like, "Well, it did. Just not in the way I wanted it." 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. That's a powerful one. I like that whole concept. Because we do end up kind of – the important part of about getting clear internally is that, ultimately, we tend to interact and act towards those things that are actually kind of important anyway. We're going to do that whether we're conscious about it or not. But if we're not conscious about it, it's easy to fall into like, "Oh, that wasn't what I wanted." And to your point – and it's definitely never the full picture, because that's that immediate disappointment that can feel like we're entirely off base, whereas the larger picture shows us, "Oh, hey, we're going somewhere." 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. I do have an analogy that I thought about, about what it may look like to be 100% energetically engaged. And I don't know if it should come up as part of the coaching or now. 

Alex Cullimore: Fire away. I think let's hear it. Might inspire both of us in the coaching. 

Cristina Amigoni: This is my analogy at 2am. Nothing like not sleeping between 2 and 4am to get ideas on this. My analogy is when I think about being 100% energetically engaged, the image that comes to mind to me, it's a river. And it's a river with flowing water. Hence, the river. But it's really – for us, we are the river. And when we as the river are 100% energetically engaged, we're not controlling where the water goes, because the water is going to go wherever it's going to go. We're not trying to predict where it's going to go. Again, we release expectations. We're fully connected with everything around us. 

If we think of a river that's allowed to just be what it is, then it nourishes. It's amazing what it does. It nourishes everything around it. The trees. The grass. The flowers. The animals. The fish. Everything get nourished when that river is allowed to be itself and let go of any type of control. 

And so, what stops that – what stops us from being 100% energetically engaged and, therefore, the outcomes of this amazing nourishment and connection to the environment around us is when we try to control. When we think – especially as humans, and we think of nature, when we're like, "Oh, you know what? I actually want to put a very beautiful dam right here and stop the flow. Because that's what's important to me right now." 

What's important to me right now is for whatever outside or internal influencers, and influencers could come into play in my image, where think of external influencers what the society he tell me I should be doing here. As opposed to just flowing and see what happens. And letting go even of needing to see what happens. And, you know, what does the people around me? What am I preconditioned? What are all those influencers that then come in and tell us the message of like, "Well, now, no. The important thing is not the water anymore. The important thing is that I get to build this beautiful dam that it's seen from space and everybody gets to admire. And I get to control the water to stay exactly where I wanted it to be. 

And if you think about what happens to the water and the river at that point, well, it will find a way. Water will find a way around the dam. But at that point, it's split and there's no flow anymore. When we think about flow, that's what I think about 100% energetically engaged. We're in flow. We've stopped the flow because of what we thought we needed. What we thought we wanted. Because the external influencers or internal influencers made it more important to stop the water instead of letting it flow as it goes. 

And then there's all sorts of consequences. Now we've killed the nature downstream. And it's starved it from the water that it needs. We've killed any type of – that we're causing stagnation. If we have a dam that has openings, we're not trying to control how much water goes down. But that's not flow. We lose all these things that connect us to we're supposed to be doing as a river, which is nourish. 

Alex Cullimore: That's a great image.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. That was my image at 2am. 

Alex Cullimore: To even expand on that, the first image that kind of comes up to me is the Grand Canyon. That's a river that was let be for millennia. Millions and millions and millions of years. And now we have this beautiful, enormous canyon that has been slowly carved out. I mean, this is a river in full force in its natural and nature prime has been allowed to indelibly change the environments and create this wonder of the world that is the Grand Canyon. I mean, it's a massive and impressive ecosystem all based on a river slowly, slowly – just continually being allowed to flow and change the environment around it and then create something that exists almost nowhere else. It's just something incredibly beautiful. 

Yeah. I was just thinking about that, is like that's where the consequence of letting this be go. So you let that – you really engage in that flow. You let it be what it needs to be. And you don't divert this. You don't change it. You don't alter the flow. And you get something. You're building towards something.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Yeah. And what happens when you stop the flow? Because whatever it's influencing to stop the flow – and we all do it. We all stop the flow at some point. We're down a path where we are in full connection with everything internally and externally. But we want to hold on to something, or we want a certain image, or we want the picture-perfect story for the external validation. And we stop the flow. And we kill that. We kill the connection at that point. And we make it really hard. 

Alex Cullimore: That's a great way of describe it. It actually reminds me of like how we kind of approach things like facilitating and how we approach things like coachings. It's about accessing and tapping into what is really there. Instead of trying to say like, "This is where I think the river should go." And trying to guide somebody there. It's understanding where the river is already going and removing the blocks that we've inevitably put up in the way. And that's how we engage with people. And when we think about energetic engagement, it's both our energy being applied as well as being able to respond to the energy around us of what people are bringing. Whether they're excited. Whether they're ready for this. Whether they – what they're dreading. What the real fears are being to help guide around that or provide other perspectives so people can decide whether that's a block that is real or something that was propped up there by themselves or somebody else. Or whether that dam is really serving them. 

Cristina Amigoni: And especially when we have this external need from all sorts of influences or even internal need to preserve. Let's say the river gets to a point where it's surrounded by beautiful mountains and beautiful scenery, and we don't want to leave that. We're so attached to it that we don't want to leave it. Like, yeah, put up the wall. I'm like, "Great." But that's not where you're supposed to be. Let's put gold on the wall, and take great pictures, and make it the biggest and bestest wall on the planet. You just stop the flow though. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah.

Cristina Amigoni: The wall is not supposed to be there. Recognizing when is that flow happening? When do you feel connected to the people, the environment, the universe, to yourself, to everything you're doing? And when we don't feel that connection, what did we do to put the wall up? What wall did we actually build there? Because we are building those walls. That's not external. That's not curve balls. The walls that we put up when we feel internal disturbance is our own walls.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. That is the hardest thing to accept throughout coaching school. Slowly realizing that all of these things that we are held back by are placed there by us at some level. Or our investment and belief that they are immovable is placed there by us. Or the idea that there's no other way around this and we just have to face or deal with this, it's all placed there by ourselves. And it's not to blame. It's natural to feel these things. It's just worth the curiosity to realize, "Hey, I'm putting this wall up in front of myself. And I can choose if I'd like to continue to invest and believe that this wall is here or see what might exist around it. Or if this is necessary anymore." 

It's not easy work and stuff that will come up over and over again. There are lots of things that will just be defaulted walls that are in there that we don't even feel like are walls. We feel like they're just natural part of the world until we can evaluate it on a different perspective. And this is where coaching is really fun, because you get to search for those and you create the space to have those perspectives and understand what is really a real wall. And what is something we believe to be a wall that doesn't need to be there? 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It's so true. And having that – when I think about how do I know when I'm 100% energetically engaged is I realize that I'm not putting up walls. Or it's easier to know when I'm not more than when I am. When I am, it's flow. You just are. When it's not, it's when things seem difficult. When they feel difficult. When they didn't used to be and now they feel difficult. That's the self-reflection. That's the vulnerability to look and figure out what wall did I put up? And what was the meaning of that wall? What was the intention of that wall? What was I trying to do? Was it because society wanted me to put it up? That's what I thought I was expected to do. Was it because I was attached to the past and I didn't want to let go? Was it because – what was it? 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. It's a really important and difficult question to answer sometimes. Is it intended to be there? This is really the synthesis of all of the other disciplines, because it does have that lack of resistance when you're in this full energetic engagement, because you are confident. You are authentic. You are connected. You're making conscious choices. You're in acceptance. You're having full access to your own power. Your own say so. And that's only possible through some of that introspection. You're not just having walls that were probably placed there externally, but have been invested internally and letting that stop you.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. And part of that power in the flow is when there is an externally-placed wall, because we all are very influenced by externally-placed walls. By the right thing to do according to society, parents, the environment. What's normally done? What people are going to ask? What are they going to say? That we do have the power. The river still has the power to break down the wall. That's why like the water is going to go. The water will find a way. It will find cracks. Those cracks will become bigger. It will either maybe join another river. It will find a way. It won't stay where it is. It's just going to be a lot harder. 

Alex Cullimore: You can listen to a whisper. You can listen to little cracks and you can address what's happening. Or you can have a giant burst.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Exactly. You can have a giant burst. It's going to happen. It's just how painful does the journey to the release, to being back in flow is going to be. And what do you lose in that? What's lost? What's the cost? 

Alex Cullimore: Right. Somewhat devastating quote. It's like most people won't reach for the things they'd like to achieve in life because they're worried about having an awkward conversation at the Christmas table. Basically, they want to change something about their lives, but they're going to have to then be a slightly different person or totally different person than they were at the last holiday season. Basically, they're going to have to reckon with being different in a place that is otherwise the same. And it could be absolutely a real influencer to feel like, "Ah, that's too much." And it's something that's kind of when it's putting those dark lights, hard to get on board with.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, it is. And it's totally normal. We all do it. No matter how comfortable we may be with tough conversations, there's some conversations that we don't want to have. And so, we will protect the water flow all we want, all we can. Maybe we'll close it in and be like, "Nope." Because flowing means going to a different place. And then I have to explain why I'm in a different place than I have been for however long. The path has changed. And I have to explain why it changed. 

Alex Cullimore: It's a great metaphor. I like the river, the river analogy and the river image. This great idea for energetic engagement. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Productive 2am. 

Alex Cullimore: This is the – you wonder an invention exists at 2am. It's a night owl.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. 

Alex Cullimore: This is one – and we hadn't talked about it before, but it'd be an interesting exercise to do if you have anything that happens to be on the top of your minds. But they have all these quotes. Some of the ones that we were reading. And one prompt is to come up with your own saying that might be listed, that might be on that list of quotes. I'm curious if you have thoughts. I can share one that I had written many months ago just to kick it off. But if there's one there – 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Kick it off. 

Alex Cullimore: There's a couple that I thought about, but one that I kind of liked was you have to play in full sport of your future self as if you'd like to see good things for that person. 

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, that's a great quote.

Alex Cullimore: There's a lot of studies that talk about, like our future selves, we almost – especially if it's far enough away, we talk about them and think about them as an entirely separate person. I'm even saying it in my language here. I'm saying them that future person as if it's not us. And so, understanding that that is actually like – that's not only like a person that we will presumably be at some point, but that we'd like to see good things for that person that we will be. Such a fun reminder of like, "Hey, what you do now is what becomes." 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. That's really good. I don't know that I can come up with one without preparation. But if I were to stick to the river analogy. And it's going to be butchered. I would probably say something like you can flow through life to where you're supposed to go. Or you can build blocks and walls and make it really hard to get there. You're still going to get there. That's the piece. It's just going to be very painful.

Alex Cullimore: Listen to the whispers. Listen to the intuition. Or you can feel the paint of a larger correction later.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. 

Alex Cullimore: It's like a stock market. It's going to go one way. 

Cristina Amigoni: Well, and understand when the whispers and the intuitions are talking. Yeah. What are they saying? Because we can learn to listen. But it's harder sometimes to understand like what is it saying? 

Alex Cullimore: Mm-hmm. 

Cristina Amigoni: And what do I want it to be saying? We try to control that too. It's like, yeah, it's saying that. But I don't want it to be saying that. Because I really want to go down this path that I mapped out 20 years ago. 

Alex Cullimore: And so, that goes back to that intention setting you're talking about of like really getting clear on why you want to walk that path, so that you know whether it's just now you become attached to the idea of that path or if you're still on the same intention and it just happens to be a different path than you were thinking.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Or are you avoiding hard conversations at the Christmas table? 

Alex Cullimore: Exactly. Or is this the path you don't want it to be because this is going to cause just some frustration and unfortunate difficult conversations or something in the immediate present? 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Should we get coaching? 

Alex Cullimore: Sure. Let's get coaching. 

Cristina Amigoni: Where can we start? Well, I guess same question. How does being 100% energetically engaged affect your performance? 

Alex Cullimore: When I'm 100% energetically engaged, it feels easy. Like flowing like a lot of potential. I feel like I'm playing with all the cards available. Do you know what I mean? There's the idea of I can listen to and use my intuition. I'm not held back by worrying about what else is happening as possible. And it's trusting it enough really. I guess, at the end of it, it's trusting that I'm enough. I've done enough. This is enough. We can figure out what will happen with the inevitable changes. That's a potent place to be if it comes to performance. And you can feel actually engaged and feel like you have a choice. To feel like you have access to your full consciousness or full amount of consciousness you have currently while ever expanding it. 

Cristina Amigoni: Totally makes sense. It's a great definition of that. The essence of all the possibilities, infinite possibilities. Yeah. How do you recognize when you're not? 

Alex Cullimore: It feels like all the different things tend to come back to some type of mental fog. There's some inability to see clearly. So that definitely comes back through like all kinds of influencers. If you haven't gotten enough sleep, if I haven't got enough sleep, that's going to be a hard time. If I have too much on a to-do list or it doesn't feel like there's enough time for it, that could be an influence. All these things end up being – either there's physical stress kind of involved and you'll start to feel the weight. Or there's just mental fog. The lack of clarity. The direction is harder to find. The confidence is harder to find. 

And so, not to piggyback off some of your answers, but it's when you can't really just feel that intuition. You can't just like trust that intuition and sit in it. When you get too wrapped up in trying to justify and rationalize all the things about what can and should happen. It's when you start to believe all the shoulds. Or start to really invest in all the shoulds. That's when when there's enough shoulds in the language that I use. Or I don't have clarity on even where to begin. Or I've lost clarity on what the end goal is. All of those are good keys that something's off.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Very good awareness. For sure. Especially of the soulds. What your typical actions when you start down that path of shoulds?

Alex Cullimore: There's a couple different ones. If I can't get off the train soon enough and the should start to really run the show, then this is when the logic portion becomes difficult, because then there's a lot of justifying of those shoulds. Well, there really is a reason that we should do this. And, yeah, your intuition is telling you this, but that's for later. That's after we've accomplished the shoulds. That's after this is done. That's when this is now. 

The actions tend to become either going into justifying, going into rationalizing, going into investing in and feeling the shoulds as if they are the needs or the it's going to happen this way. You just deal with it. It should be this way. And so, you're going to have to like go do that. And so, which then it can go like one of two ways. Either it goes into further delay. Because I'm like, "I just really don't want to do that even if I feel like I should." There are so many shoulds here. And I'm going to just procrastinate and avoid this. Or there's biting that and trying to get out of the shoulds. Or there's just rationalizing it. There's really like three ways of like, "Fine. Then this is the should. And that's what I'm going to go plot down that path and slowly lose energy." 

Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's good reflection of the three possible paths of the shoulds. Maybe one of the most common or easiest to go to is like just avoiding it. And the other ones sound like they may have more consequences to them.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. All three feel like they have consequences. You're avoiding it. It's not taking action either way. It's just like, well, I'm not going to – I'm just going to not engage in something that I want to get to in the end, because I'm stuck on this path that I don't want to take in the immediate future. That's like, "Oh, man, I should do this. I don't want to take this little detour to do it. But I don't make any progress either way." 

Cristina Amigoni: True. Yeah. Very true. What are some of the consequences of letting the shoulds run the show? 

Alex Cullimore: To go back to the river metaphor, it's when you're damning something up. You're blocking it. Trying to push it to some other direction than where it's going. And the consequence of that is, A, it takes a lot of energy to do that kind of damage. And so, there's not as much energy available to do whatever else, or to face anything else, or to get your mind around the shoulds. This is why all the disciplines are so hard when they're most necessary. 

And the consequence then becomes that, usually, the long-term consequence, the most painful portion of it is eventually going back and being like, "I mean, this should – in a better sense, I should have listened to my intuition." That's the pain. The pain is the regret. I should have tapped in sooner. I should have done that. And that's should have is I guess different than should than one's looking back, one's looking forward. But the should haves. 

Cristina Amigoni: The should haves. Yes. Yes. What does your intuition sound like when you listen to it and you follow it? 

Alex Cullimore: It's hard to describe intuition. It is like self-trust. It is that comfort in this is what I think should happen. And it's knowing that while there is the buzz, and the voices, the emotions. There's the logical voices of like maybe that isn't what should happen. We should go this way. I shouldn't listen to that intuition. Or it's the emotional reaction of like that's going to be hard. Intuition itself is that voice that feels authentic, and trusted, and in flow. And none of those things feel like they matter. Or there aren't nearly enough of a consequence to really even be considered. That it's just, yeah, this is what seems right to happen. And the intuition voices saying that at all times. It's just whether or not it's easy to tune into and not be drowned out by the other voices. Or whether you're really listening to it. 

And that voice has clarity. It has flow. And it's the voice that doesn't come with other baggage or comes with this total – the acceptance of the "consequences" of like, "If I follow this intuition, it's going to need X, Y and Z hard conversations. It's going to meet all the other things that are going to come up." And feeling connected to the idea that that's the right way to go when there are the next steps that will potentially draining to take. It's just feeling like that's the right intention. And it is a kind of gut feeling. And I think that's what people talk about gut feeling and intuition. That voice is very clear. And even though there are the other voices and all the other things, there are real things to go have to deal with. The intuitive voice knows that's the important thing to do. It's just whether I'm allowing it to be heard. 

Cristina Amigoni: How do you usually stop it from being heard or not allow it to be heard? 

Alex Cullimore: It's when I get wrapped up in circles of what I think should happen or what other people would do. Or what the consequences of following that might be. Or getting worried about the consequences of that. Or that my intuition is telling me this. But that would be painful to have to go through. And I don't really want to do that. Trying to avoid the pain of that. Trying to avoid the difficulty that will come from it. Or just trying to rationalize that that's not what should happen. Those are the other voices that make it sometimes hard to listen to, the intuition.

Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That makes sense. What currently in your life are you not listening to your intuition for? Or what are you currently listening to your intuition for? 

Alex Cullimore: I've actually felt fairly connected intuitively for the last couple of months. Certainly, I'm not listening to now. One thing is that I've got to get some clarity. And I've got a few things going on next year. Going to Switzerland. Going to Waco to try and run a triathlon. And there's just things that need to be planned and put in place there, which we've done all the background. 

But, literally, just getting like the trips and stuff booked and understand. Just committing to those. That's something that I know is going to happen. I know it's the right thing to happen. I just haven't done it. Now it's just kind of this lingering mental to do, which I don't feel too worried about. There's time to figure out the details there. It's just hasn't been done. 

And so, I guess there I'm not like – I haven't fully yet engaged in the intuition there, which feels more like a matter of just timing. I just haven't done it yet. I don't feel worried about doing it. It feels very clear. That's what to do. It just hasn't happened. 

I think I'm avoiding that just, because anytime you have to book travel, then there's like 50,000 little decisions to make. Like, which flight is this one going to be? How long can we do that? What's [inaudible 00:32:53] going to look like? Do I have all the clothes that I'm going to need to go to Switzerland in February? Things like that. There's a bunch of decisions that are going to have to come up. I mean, the longer I delay on that, the more I'm still going to have to face all those. I just haven't yet pulled together my executive function to face that. 

Cristina Amigoni: That makes sense. there are a lot of details. Even if it feels like there's a direction and it's a clear direction and there's commitment to it. There's still a lot of things that get in the way. And a lot of desires that may not be there to actually do them, because they're not fun. 

Alex Cullimore: It's just some little tedious stuff. It'll be just a little draining not because it's like taking energy away or the wrong thing to do. But because just making decisions is tiring. It just takes a little time. 

Cristina Amigoni: It definitely does. When you think about tapping into your intuition, how has that been clear in the past? 

Alex Cullimore: There's certain shining moments that just kind of pop through. And some bigger. Some smaller. But there's just things where you just like – you make a choice almost like pre-thought. And, actually, so many of that – I was actually just reviewing a couple of these with Rachel this week. Many of them actually ended up reverting back to New York. 

First time I got the chance to go to New York, I had been doing this show in Boulder, this musical in Boulder. And this guy, he lived in New York for a long time. And so, he's going back and he's going to take it to a theater there. He was like, "Hey, do you want to come." And there was no doubt. Like, yeah, 100%. 1000%. I would love to do that. Let's jump in and do that. 

And then when we got the chance to move to New York, some random old family friend of Rachel's needed a roommate out there. We had been talking about New York and suddenly this opportunity had fall in our lap me. It wasn't even a question. It was like, "I didn't have a job. I didn't have anything lined up. I didn't know what was going to happen there." But it was like, yeah, we're doing that. That's happening. We'll figure out the details. 

And then even recent ones that are less overall life-changing, or totally different, or important, or things like even like running a half marathon, I was like, "No. I just want to do that." That just seems like fun. And ' I've always wanted to do a triathlon. And my friend was like, "I found one." And he was like, "Hey, I'm going to do this. You want to do this?" Like, yeah, of course. Let's do this. And those ones kind of stick through. It's like just moments where it was like so clear what the choice was with zero thought into what is rational or not about it. It was just, yeah, of course. That's the thing to do.

Cristina Amigoni: Feels like there's a lot of clarity in those moments.

Alex Cullimore: Mm-hmm. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. How can you harness that clarity or remind yourself of that clarity when you do feel like you're in a fog and you can't figure out what the intuition is saying? 

Alex Cullimore: I think it goes back to if it was ignited by something like that. Like going to, say, Switzerland, for example. We know that – we even know the dates. We know the time. We know when we'll be there. All that's clear. Knowing that the intuition was like, "Yeah. Of course, we're doing that." We'll figure out whatever details need to be figured out to make that happen. 

It's just remembering that like that's the intention. And the intuition set us on this path. And, yes, there's going to things to take care of along that path. It's important to kind of just get through those and do those and not in like a, "Oh, I just have to get through those way." That's part of following that intuition is doing the work that will scaffold that to come to fruition. 

And some of it is going back and revisiting whatever intuition led down this path in the first place. It's going back and being like, "Yeah, why did I start this." And remembering that. That goes back to what we kind of talked about a few times, is like getting really clear on the intention. Getting really clear on what was the point of this? What's the excitement about this? Why is this important to do for me? And the intuition without it being like a rationalizing it way. Just at the core, why does this feel important? Well, this is a good opportunity. We really can't miss that. Whatever else comes up as like an external – basically a little list of shoulds. Like we really shouldn't miss the opportunity to do – like that would be rationalizing the other way. Getting to the real why. The real like this is important because it feels like the thing I want to move towards. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. What does it feel like when you have that real why?

Alex Cullimore: I mean, it feels like a superpower. It's so clear on where to go that the things that pop up the inevitable "obstacles", which are really just kind of some bumps in the road that are going to happen regardless. It's hard to be discouraged by that or be stopped by any of them. Or to not just be like, "Oh, okay. This is a wall I didn't expect. But we're just going to go around it." 

The vision is so clear. It feels like a superpower of like, "Yeah, let's just keep going." Yeah, who cares what comes up? Of course, things are going to come up. And that's fine. Like, "Oh, I didn't expect that one. Oh, that one really came out of left field. And I didn't see it. And that's okay." I still have such clarity on where I want to go that it feels like being unstoppable. 

Cristina Amigoni: That's very powerful. For sure, it makes sense, that when you're 100% engaged with your intuition and why is that clear, there's obstacles. That's the way they are. Okay. Whatever. Not going to stop me.

Alex Cullimore: Smash cut. Taking your red eyes to New York with two giant suitcases each and a cat under each shoulder. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes.

Alex Cullimore: And arriving in a city we'd never lived in at 6am to a tiny apartment. No furniture. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. How can you harness and you use all of these tools really, and recognitions, and awareness of what it feels like when there is flow as soon as you start having some of the shoulds coming up? 

Alex Cullimore: Ane thing that I think might be helpful as like a scaffolding into the future, is that right now I've been able to live, especially the last couple of months here. I think since like summer. We've certainly had like some ups and downs. But what we've gotten to do over and gotten to be a part of, especially at work, we've gotten to do so many things that are just it's easy to feel all the power of the intuition that is going through that and continue to lean on that and to make the next decisions. And when the inevitable turns come up, what would be a good practice I think is to kind of scaffold some of this to continue leaning into this when it's less clear. 

Like you said, it's always easy to support somebody when they're already like engaged, already fully they on a scaffold. Gratitude, basically. And remembering like this is the gratitude for everything that we've gotten to do. And what that means for the future? And remembering that so much of this was the outcome of just following intuition. That is a powerful force to continue to lean into. And I wouldn't want to do it a different way.

Cristina Amigoni: That's totally understandable and incredibly good reflection on the following intuition and what happened. What are the outcomes of following intuitions? In a practical way, what does that look like? What does that – how do you build the scaffolding? How do you have it with you? 

Alex Cullimore: I want to reflect on both – the it's kind of definitely a gratitude exercise. Definitely reflecting on just some of the gratitude for where I am. But, also, reflections on what has happened. Just kind of like there's so much flow that we've been experiencing it. And it's not that I want to step out of experiencing it. But, inevitably, there will be a time where it feels like that's disconnected and it will be hard to access that. And doing the work now to be like, "This is what led to that." Especially, if I'm in a good mind space and I feel like I'm in a good mind space currently. And to build – basically pre-build resilience for the next times and pre-build the evidence, so that it's not a matter of gathering the evidence at that time, but it's already there. It's just a matter of looking at it again. 

I mean, just having organized it enough in my head that like, "Hey, here's all the things that led to that. Here's what was important about." Like, leaning in when this felt like it was difficult. When we didn't know what to do here, we made this choice. Here's what that outcome was. And it's basically pre-building. And that's I think the idea of scaffolding comes up so many times in my head, it's pre-building some of that support for the time when it's not immediately clear. It is the valuable exercise to go back and find that evidence when you're in those moments. You should – it's worth doing all of that. 

And if I can get ahead of the game and be proactive about this, it's building some of that evidence so that it's harder to fall off of the overall flow and the overall path. It's remembering all the benefits of the path up to this point before having to go back and do it under harder circumstances. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. That's totally understandable. And having that scaffolding. Because, as you said, it's much easier to access it when it's in flow and it's a reflection. Then access it when you actually need it. And you're like, "Oh, no. I got to build it. But I need it." So, which one comes first? The need is not going to go away. And I'm just delaying the need if I have to build it first because I don't have it. If you think about what are the foundations? And it's scaffolding. But what are the pillars of gratitude? What are the pillars that will help the scaffolding be built? 

Alex Cullimore: I really appreciate that question, because there are a couple things I kind of might not had thought of until you asked that. Part of it, obviously, there's gratitude. There's self-reflection. There's a lot of journaling. There's a lot of keeping that down. Because that clarifies a lot of things in my head. But the other portion that comes to me is remembering to reach out to all the people that have been part of that journey and the things that I'm grateful for along the way. Because, I mean, not only is it just a good practice in general. And something I try and do as best as possible is to share gratitude with people when I have it. I think we all need to remember lots of things that influences that we've had that we're not thinking of that somebody else has had for one. 

And for two, it's solidifies that in an internal, external way. If I've got the gratitude and I understand that, that's great. And if I've also shared that, it's like the truth that I build that I understand gets to be shared. And it's like putting it in public. And then, suddenly, there's other lights on it. And just that the other attention to it and the other – the fact that it is somewhere with other people as well or at least has been even if they want reminder later, or they need a reminder later, or if other people aren't thinking about it later when I'm thinking about it, it breathes it into a different type of light. It's like the tattoo idea. We're going to "Sterling" so much in this episode. 

Cristina Amigoni: We're expecting a commission, Sterling. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. You're welcome. Go check out Hunting Discomfort by Sterling Hawkins. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. 

Alex Cullimore: It is that tattoo idea though. It's because it's spoken out loud, it becomes this other form of both reinforcement for self. And it takes on it almost three dimensions, because it's not just inside your head. It takes out something that feels like now is part of life. And it always was even, when it's part of your head, it just takes on that. It truly feels more three-dimensional is what I'm continuing to bounce around and really coming back to. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. That makes sense. Yes. Externalizing it. Putting it out there. Actually making the effort. As humans we, do tend to have mental gratitude. But sharing gratitude is a whole different exercise, because it takes a lot of, well, the disciplines of that and vulnerability, courage to do that. How can you utilize any of or all of the disciplines to help you through this scaffolding building? 

Alex Cullimore: I'm glad this is kind of happening at this time of year, because there's going to be a couple of days where we don't have calls. And there's going to be some weeks where there's not that much other stuff going on. Because it's easy to be like, "Yeah, I'll have time to do that later." I think the thing that would have got in the way is it's easy to – I think like that's not the important thing to do right now. But remembering that's the important thing and having that internal importance, which I'm trying to parse that into a discipline. 

I think that some that's like authenticity is just remembering the importance of that and honoring that. I do intuitively understand that to be important. And I guess that is also just honoring some intuition in itself. I know that this is an important thing to do. So, do it. So, do make that important. 

I guess it really more is than this 100% energetically engage, it's about building that resilience and understanding. I have an opportunity here to – there's value and there's necessity. And digging out when we feel like we're in a hole. When we feel like we're on a higher state, we're not in a hole, there's so much value in building from there and actually taking the time to invest and do that. 

It's engagement. I guess it's really about that engagement and presence in the moment. This is an important thing to remember not just because things are going well and that's great. But that there's a lot that went into this. And that's worth noting to know for charting future courses and to know what's happening in the future. And to have that to lean back on.

Cristina Amigoni: Very true. Lots of disciplines engaged in their presence in the moment. Authenticity, connecting to what happened. How it infected confidence.

Alex Cullimore: Action, confidence. Definitely a lot of awareness, acceptance. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Tons of that. 

Alex Cullimore: And a conscious choice to reinforce it. 

Cristina Amigoni: When is this scaffolding work of building it going to start?

Alex Cullimore: This afternoon and tomorrow, we actually don't have calls set up. Just this afternoon and tomorrow morning. We both got a busy day. This afternoon and tomorrow morning. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. it just went from a day of nothing to a day of stuff. And what could help you make that happen? 

Alex Cullimore: I feel plenty excited to go jump in and do it. I'm not sure there's much else needed. It's a rare opportunity. And it's nice to kind of consciously be aware of this opportunity and to be able to have it happen at a time where I get to take advantage of this over the next – this is the call we have today. To be able to take advantage of this immediately, it's incredible. I very lucky just to have this happen at this time. 

Cristina Amigoni: Excellent. Sounds like a good plan. Solid plan. What could stnad in the way? 

Alex Cullimore: Getting too caught up on the other to-do lists. Being ready for the holidays. I realize this is probably released in July. But recorded, December 21st.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Christmas in July. We're in the thick of the holidays recording this. Yes. It's a little disturbing.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Letting those logistics things get the way, that's going to be a problem if I let that happen.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. How are you willing to address those if they do get in the way? 

Alex Cullimore: I think I'm going to set a reminder on my phone just the kind of the importance of doing this. Because it's just a reminder that this is a chance and an opportunity and not one worth passing up. And I have lots of time tomorrow morning. Just get some sleep tonight. Get a little of it started today. Then I just have two hours of the quiet of the morning, which is the best time I found to really put all this down, and really think about this, and really just reflect on it.

Cristina Amigoni: What kind of support would you need? 

Alex Cullimore: I don't think I really need any. This was what I needed to remember how important it is to do this.

Cristina Amigoni: All right. All right. And how can I help you with accountability? 

Alex Cullimore: I don't know if there's necessarily other accountability needed. It's just a – 

Cristina Amigoni: Sounds solid. All right. 

Alex Cullimore: We can just check in and see how we're doing. This time and tomorrow. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. I guess, finally, what else comes up when you think about being able to be 100% present in the moment or when that's being detracted? 

Alex Cullimore: I guess I'm really just grateful we went through this whole process of this, the COR.E Dynamics, again. I just recently went through before we even started this with other coaches who had gone through the program. And so, that helped reinforce. I had done the whole test and certification in this before I even did that. And I was like, "Okay. Yeah, these are interesting concepts. But when I went back and reinvest, I was like, "Oh, okay. I really get this. I can see how this is coming together." And now that we've gotten to do this, it's just all the more real and reaffirmed. And which is I guess another piece of evidence why it would be important to go build the scaffolding I've been talking about. Because that's part of this. This is reinforcing and understanding that these are important and powerful if remembered and used.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Definitely. Yeah, it is powerful. And building the scaffolding will have to help remember. It's like now there's something concrete. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Continue reinforcement. 

Cristina Amigoni: To tap into. Yeah. 

Alex Cullimore: Reinforcement learning. Everything we try to build into programs. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Imagine that.

Alex Cullimore: Weird. It applies to us too.

Cristina Amigoni: I know. Yeah. We don't need that stuff. How do you feel about closing the coaching session? 

Alex Cullimore: Feels great. Thank you.

Cristina Amigoni: All right. You're welcome. 

Alex Cullimore: Welcome back. We had to take a quick change of pace. We had to replace one of the recordings here. You might have noticed that my voice now sounds again a little deeper than it did probably about 2 minutes ago on this recording. We're back in this one. 

We are re-recording a little bit of – this is back to our 10th discipline in the COR.E Dynamics series. 100% energetically engaged. Talking about being fully and entirely engaged in what we're doing. Feeling attached to it. And able to face it, motivated to go and do what we want to do and have moved from that feeling of having no choice and no power to having more power and total choice. 100% energetically engage is when we can fully focus and choose our energy as well as how you're moving through the world. Tall order by any stretch.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. 

Alex Cullimore: With that in mind, Cristina, are you feeling ready to be coached a bit? 

Cristina Amigoni: Always.

Alex Cullimore: This is super believable. 

Cristina Amigoni: 100% engaged into being coached. 

Alex Cullimore: 100% engaged in this moment. And we'll see how long that lasts.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. See how soon I regret that.

Alex Cullimore: Well, let's see if we can start off on a fun question. First of all, how does being 100% energetically engaged affect your performance? 

Cristina Amigoni: 100%. Pun intended. 

Alex Cullimore: Well, no more question needed.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. And we're done. That was an easy coaching session. 

Alex Cullimore: Well, I hope you guys got something out of this. See you next time.

Cristina Amigoni: No. Definitely, it's a huge one. If I'm not – you can definitely see – I can see it from how I feel in the moment, but also from the outcomes of that. If I'm not 100% energetically engaged, it's a very different experience and very different outcome in performance.

Alex Cullimore: Makes sense. You feel differently doing it. The outcomes are totally different for it. How might being less than 100% energetically engaged be holding you back currently? 

Cristina Amigoni: Currently? That's an interesting question. Because I'm not 100% energetically engaged. I have way too many distractions and influencers. And so, how is it holding me back currently? I would say there's a couple of things that come to mind. One is definitely from an outcome perspective. Not getting as much done as I would like to. And the feelings of that. The meta feelings of like, "Oh, now I feel guilty and ashamed of not getting as much done as I would like to." And so then, to top on that, it's like, "Okay, what's being dropped? And how is that going to impact other things? How do I start to connect dots?" 

Everything has a ripple effect. What is the ripple effect? It's almost more about the ripple effects than the actual moment piece. The moment is like, "Oh, we can all run at 100%." That's just not possible. Not even machines can do that. Humans definitely can't. But what's the ripple effect of that if it continues? And, also, if me running at 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, it's not equated or it's not complemented by somebody picking up the other 40% and compensating for it. What are the ripple effects that could come out weeks, months, days later? That they don't help the guilt and the shame at the moment.

Cristina Amigoni: There's a feeling of stuff that should be done or could be done that's resulting in – when it's not, then maybe lack of engagement or maybe just a number of factors. Then that's not done, then it creates ripple effects. Those ripple effects end up having the meta feelings kind of pour in when you feel like there's, "Okay, now this is rippled throughout." The expectation is broken. And now there's something in the future lurking, unknown perhaps, or known, about where this will impact. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. There's a lack of trust in the process. I can't trust the process if I've just broken the process.

Alex Cullimore: Interesting. That's a fascinating turn of phrase, trusting the process. Being something where you are – ideally, in the COR.E Dynamic sense, it's knowing that eventually the process works out and when there are bumps and ripples. And the way you're using it there sounds like it's in a more rigid sense of like, "Oh, the process was the expectation." And now that expectation is broken. And, thus, the process is broken.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, which goes against the actual trust in the process. 

Alex Cullimore: Perhaps. But trust in the process is a result of some energetic engagement as well. It's difficult to be able to trust the process when we can't see that full picture or when we're stuck with other pieces of just expectation or broken expectations. What do you think might be holding you back from feeling 100% energetically engaged? 

Cristina Amigoni: First of all, I do want to – now that I think about it, it depends on what I'm doing. A lot of the stuff that we do – not most of it, especially that people-facing. In our work, I am able to be 100% engaged. Whether we're facilitating a session or we have a meeting. I am there. I'm not anywhere else. That's where my energy is I would say most of the time. If not, it may dip every once in a while. But just slightly. And then it goes back up. 

It's more of the rest of life, I guess, outside of work, where there's just a lot of distractions. There's a lot of influencers. There's a lot of to-dos. There's a lot of emotional stuff. Being in transition of coming back to the US. And so, that's where I feel like I'm not here. Yeah. And so, my energy split in many different places. And so, I struggle with some of the specifics, specific disciplines. Acceptance now takes effort. More effort than usually. Acceptance always takes effort. But it takes even more effort. Trusting the process, hence, then suffers, because there's this eagerness of like I just want to get to the end of the process. Can I stop trusting the process and actually get to the end? 

Alex Cullimore: The process to deliver now, please.

Cristina Amigoni: Exactly. And so, that's where I feel I'm most or I'm least 100% engaged.

Alex Cullimore: That makes sense. And having been through the journey before, you also know that it's a change curve. You know that there is an end result. And sometimes that's almost more painful when you know there is another side of this and it doesn't feel like it's in the moment.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. 

Alex Cullimore: I went back to this a little bit when we were talking about presence in the moment. But I'm curious how it correlates to feeling things like trusting the process right now? Meeting yourself where you're at and knowing that just where you might be, what would it look like to meet yourself where you're at? 

Cristina Amigoni: I think it would definitely look like actually accepting or going through the disciplines and then finding that path. To find the path that doesn't have this definite almost like written in stone way of being 100% energetically engaged. What if being 100% energetically engaged by actually practicing all the disciplines and being aware of all the influences means that changes all the time? That 100% looks different depending on the task, the moment, the people around, my state. What if it isn't, "Oh, I'm at the height of the mountain every time I'm 100% energetically engaged?" What if it's, "Well, maybe sometimes I'm in the valley. Sometimes I'm at Starbucks picking up the tea to go hiking?" Maybe sometimes I'm meditating. Maybe sometimes I'm watching a movie. It looks different.

And so, releasing that expectation that because it is so energizing in the pieces that are you're fully connected with, being 100% feels incredible. It feels like life meaning. Like, "Oh, my life has meaning." Maybe not all moments need to be feeling that way. Not every dish that I put in the dishwasher needs to give me meaning of life. 

Alex Cullimore: I don't think anybody can relate to that. Most people get most life satisfaction out of dishwasher loading. That makes sense. There's the idea that 100% looks different on different days. 100% of available energy essentially. 100% of what can be done. Not 100% of what feels like should be done, which again goes back to that kind of gap that is created by expectation. How does – it might sound corny. But I'm curious, how do things like getting the dishwasher loaded and stuff contribute to life and the moments where maybe it does feel like you're on top of the mountain? 

Cristina Amigoni: That's interesting. I'm not quite sure I've ever felt that I'm on top of the mountain when I'm doing the dishwasher. I would say when it doesn't feel like a burden. When it doesn't feel – when there isn't the internal dialogue of the frustration, and the burden, and I should be doing something else, and I'm wasting my time. But it's just emotion. It's just motions to then be able to have clean dishes for the next meal. It's just part of life. And there isn't any resentment around that.

Alex Cullimore: It's following the train of like the dishwasher. You load a dish in the dishwasher. You now have a clean dish for the next meal. How does having a clean dish for the next meal continue to contribute, or might it contribute to otherwise energetically engaged moments? The ones where you do feel like you're connected to the meaning of life.

Cristina Amigoni: Honestly, more than the clean dish. What really contributes to feeling on top of the mountain is the empty sink. I have very, very low tolerance for clutter. And the older I get, the lower that tolerance is. And so, walking into the kitchen and seeing stuff in the sink drives me up the wall, especially things that I didn't use. 

And so, I get a huge sense of peace when things are what they supposed to be. And that's where I can shift to like, "I will do this, because it gives me peace." It's a huge disturbance for me when there's just clutter and things are not where they're supposed to be. It's a physical disturbance. It's a mental disturbance. It's noise. It causes a lot of noise. 

And so, that is the feeling. It's walking into a room and looking and being like everything is in its place. Yes, that's the peace. That gives me peace. Now I can be 100% energetically engaged in whatever I am supposed to be doing. Whatever I want to do. 

Alex Cullimore: Actually makes sense. And it calls back to the way earlier parts of our COR.E Dynamic Series where we talked about influencers. Things like the environmental influencer. That's both a significant mental, environmental, and physical influencer of getting that peace from the environment and understanding that that is something that is a giant contributing factor. 

When we go through COR.E Dynamics with people, we talk a lot about the success formula. About like the things that we put in place so that we can show up at our best. And you just illuminated a great path of, "If I have less clutter, if I have this taken care of," and that is a path to of that piece in and where I can suddenly be engaged. 

Interestingly, that dishwasher loading is connected to your 100% energetic and engagement even if the moment feels like it's right with frustration of I didn't use this dish. This wasn't mine. I'm tired of asking. Whatever other things come up. Or I should be doing something else. Or I'd really like to be on the mountain now. It is tied to it. 

Expanding that from the microcosm that is the dishwasher loading. Thinking about your life, where it is now? And you've got a lot that's going on. Aa lot that you've got to do. How are those things contributing to you being more in that flow state? In that energetic engagement?

Cristina Amigoni: I would say, and I mentioned, the work we're doing always allows me to be in flow state, except for the accounting stuff every once in a while. But even that – 

Alex Cullimore: Again, unrelatable.

Cristina Amigoni: I know. Invoicing at the end of the month, as in two days. But even that, we've been able to get to the point where it's so fast and the workflow is so easy that it's fairly straightforward. It doesn't drop me to the bottom of the mountain. Maybe it just makes me pause. 

I would say – so, work is fine. There are some of the things that I would like to do and a lot of the things that we have done, which that's a pretty amazing view, I have to say. Because a lot of things that we're doing now from a marketing perspective of even just company perspective, they were dreams. They were ideas. And it's taking me a while to actually like, "Oh, that's actually happening every single week all the time." 

And so, that's fine. I say that – I mean, the one piece that for me it's a huge core value and it has a huge influence on whether I get to be 100% energetically engaged or not is human connections. And so, we talked about it a little bit outside of the recording. But that's where I'm struggling the most to find those moments. And I've got to say, I mean, I've been here for a week and I've had glimpses of being 100% energetically engaged socially. 

But for the most part, it's been non-existent, which has a huge influence on everything else for me. So, then everything else becomes harder and more of an effort. 

Alex Cullimore: That makes sense. To challenge a core value, it's immediately going to be a smack to the energetic engagements. You mentioned that there's just so much transition going on. And it's a particularly hard time of year to go reach out to other people. Because even if they weren't in Italy, there's a lot of transition going on as we get into summer here and get into what that looks like, especially for people with kids and are on the school calendar year. There's going to be just a massive shift in everybody's life that has been going on this week and maybe last week.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Alex Cullimore: Knowing that and knowing that you've been in transition, what might it look like to give yourself some grace in the reconnecting process? 

Alex Cullimore: Patience, as always. Not expect this, "Oh, I'm back." All the social connections are going to happen in the next 48 hours or 72 hours. But, actually, accepting that it's not a judgment. It's not a fried chicken after midnight under the shower moment for the gremlin to take over an attack. If I don't get to see or speak to someone for another week, two, it's not about my worth. It's not a reflection of my worth.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. Patience and gremlins go together so easily and so well. It's so easy just to access that patience.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes.

Alex Cullimore: Thinking about that though, Gremlins exists so that we can protect ourselves from pain we've experienced in the past. What do you think it's trying to protect you from in this moment? 

Alex Cullimore: The possible disappointment of life, there's life changes. We all change. In that change, relationships change. And the ones that we hold close to our hearts, we don't want to change. We don't want to see that change happening. And knowing that it's out of my control. And knowing that the physical distance, the geographical distance might have contributed and also might have not. Maybe it had nothing to do with it if there is a disconnection or there is a change in a relationship where it's not quite as close. The closeness is gone. The dynamics are different. And it's hard. 

Where it becomes a very tasty fried chicken after midnight for my gremlin is the guilt of having been gone. And so, that automatically like, "Well, this relationship changed because I chose to leave. It is my fault." It's not because relationships change and life changes. And it's then we don't – we have control to the extent of our half of the relationship. We have control in the extent of making the effort of – like what one of our podcast guests always says, Randall, it takes effort to maintain relationships. It's not just an automatic thing. You just turn it on. It's not a light. You turn it on and then it's on. And even a light – the light bulb burns out. It's hard to distinguish whether it's my fault because of the choices I've made. Or it's just part of the journey. 

Alex Cullimore: There’s an interesting thread that occurs to me in how you said that. You mentioned that there's how much of it is under our control? We can control our half of the relationship. And then having the idea that this is my fault somehow. It's something I did because of the choices I made. Sounds like it almost plays back into that regain some of that control. And maybe the gremlin is there then to protect you from the uncertainty of relationships. The difficulty of the vulnerability of relationships. How does that resonate with you? 

Cristina Amigoni: It definitely does. I mean, it definitely relates back to that. It's that wanting to control what happens in a relationship that we can't. And so, then turning it around. 

Alex Cullimore: And you hold on to some kind of control even if that control is essentially painful, self-flagellation. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. It definitely is. The protection – I mean, ultimately, the ultimate protection, especially of my gremlins, is you're alone. So get used to it. I mean, eventually, you're always going to be alone. Everything is temporary. And if you've ridden a good wave for a while, be thankful, because it's going to end. There's always an end.

Alex Cullimore: That's a huge protector. That's definitely something to – an understandable concern to feel like that. If that's the end result, prep yourself now. If everything comes, then why put in the effort? What are the consequences of those thoughts? Consequences might be a bad term. 

Cristina Amigoni: Self-fulfilling prophecies in a way? Shockingly enough, having those thoughts, those protection thoughts don't actually protect from the pain when relationships do change and end. Even though, almost 50 years in, my gremlin still is convincing me that they do. They really don't. The pain is still going to be the pain. The grieving is still going to happen. 

They don't serve anything. There's no service to it. It's not real protection. And it can cause, again, self-fulfilling prophecies, which yes and no. Meaning because we don't have 100% control over a relationship. Yes, there is a huge element of the effort we make and the 50% we contribute. And we also can't control when things change, which means is it a self-fulfilling prophecy or is it something that was inevitable that was always going to happen? It's just that a geographical distance, or an episode, or something that happened was the triggering, was the trigger that was eventually going to happen.

Alex Cullimore: Makes sense. There's sometimes just incompatibilities. Or we just change over time. We change in different directions. And it happens to be a gap. And relating that back to the idea of you mentioned like am I not good enough, what would it look like to practice acceptance on relationships that just changed for whatever reason? That it is a separation. 

Cristina Amigoni: I've done it. I mean, I've done it over and over and over. And there's a sense of peace when you get to that point. Looking back, I mean, clearly, all of us have had relationships that are no longer are part of our lives. Or they are, but in a completely different way. And some that we would like to not have in our lives and they're still are sticking around. 

We can all go back. And I can look back at friendships at different relationships and be like, "Well, yeah, it's totally obvious why that didn't work out." And that was its course. That was the life of the relationship. Each relationship has a life. And it has a beginning. And it has an end. And that's part of it. It's part of everything we go through in life. 

I mean, even as a human body, we are renewing ourselves every day. We do not have the same cells in our human body that we did when we were born or throughout. And so, it's the same process in relationships. And so, outside of your own children, and even those relationships will change, constantly change, I don't know that there's anything that could be say this is permanent. At least there's no permanent state in relationships. 

And so, the ones that have completely ended, that was the life. There's the sense of peace in accepting that for past when you look back hindsight. The difficulty is in the present to figure out, "If I feel a change, do I want to take the reins and try to do something about it?" And how much of a role do I have in this? How much is that 50% that I can provide to delay something, or change it, and change the course?" And how much do I just need to let it go and see what happens? That's where it becomes difficult. And it's easy easier with – some relationships are easier than other. There's some relationships that you're just like, "Yeah, I'm just going to –" let go and let be and see what happens. And you never know what happens. And then other ones become much harder. Because other ones are the ones that matters and you don't want to let go. That's where you're grieving before the relationship has even changed. Because you're grieving the possibility of the change, which you know it's going to happen. But you don't want it to be – a change in deeper connection. You don't want it to be a change in end of connection.

Alex Cullimore: Absolutely makes sense. And all of this is a large wrestling with the unknown. And it is unknowable. We can't know how other people are always going to react. Or what has changed in their lives? This would – naturally, every time we feel gremlins feel like a Herculean effort to do. But if you were – and regardless of whether it feels possible, what would you want to have your mindset be in moments of this unknowability? 

Cristina Amigoni: I think there's a lot of going to trusting the process. I guess in that sense, I'm a little fatalistic. As in that the universe has a plan. We are part of it. And we can determine some path of it, but not all of it. There's some things that we can't control. And so, just really going back to the trusting the process and realizing and going back to history. Going back to realizing like things had changed. And I wouldn't be where I am today if they hadn't. Am I fully embracing where I am today? And the answer is usually yes. 

I mean, it may be a sucky day. But I wouldn't change the good parts of where I am today. And in order to keep the good parts, I fully accept the ones that were more difficult. And so, this is just part of that. It's like, at some point, it's stings now, it sucks now, it's confusing now. And one year, two years, three years, four weeks, four months down the line, look back and be like, "Oh, yeah, that's why that had to happen that way." And now it's clear. It got me here. And I wouldn't trade where I am here.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Knowing meaning will materialize is helpful. Knowing that there is a trusting that process. That at some point, it will feel meaningful is certainly good to remember in retrospect. And sometimes it doesn't necessarily map to the present moment where we feel that pain. What might acceptance look like in the present moment? 

Cristina Amigoni: Again, it's accepting that whatever I do is not a mistake. It goes back to one of the iPEC principles of you cannot make a mistake. And so, I can go back and judge something I've done as a mistake. But at the moment, I am doing the best I can given the information I have and given my state of being. And so, accepting that. 

And, also, accepting that there will be a moment. When looking back and understanding why something had to happen the way it did, it will be clear. And there will be peace. There won't be a need for a why. There won't be a clinging to, "But why did it have to happen? And why is it this way?" The why is not going to be a thing. It's like, "No. I don't really care." 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Knowing the why will fall into place. What does that enable you to do in the moment? In the present? 

Cristina Amigoni: Letting go. Letting go of how things used to be. I mean, that's the biggest grieving piece in changes in life, in any change, is that – especially the things that we do that energize us and we feel deeply connected to, we don't want those to change. And so, letting go of that expectations and knowing that that's life. And it's good. It's the quote that says the good news is that everything changes. And the bad news is that everything changes.

Alex Cullimore: That makes sense. Knowing that and looking forward into the week, what does letting go look like for you now? 

Cristina Amigoni: I guess letting go of – we talk about the social connections of the transition of coming back is letting go of like, "Oh, my God. I have to see everybody right now, this week. And if it doesn't happen, it's because they hate me and I'm not good enough." Just letting go of those thoughts. And just letting things be one way or the other. And maybe I am not good enough for some relationships anymore. And I'm not liked or wanted. And that's okay. It's going to suck. It's going to sting. But, eventually, it won't.

Alex Cullimore: That's a lot to face down.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It'll pass.

Alex Cullimore: Even so, I'm curious what support you can get in facing that. This is the regular unknowability of human life, but it is excruciatingly painful. What support can I offer? 

Cristina Amigoni: It's a good question. I think it's a huge internal piece. A lot of it is just continuing with meditation, journaling, and seeing how that helps. And I guess external support, it's more in the grace and the forgiveness of knowing I'm not going to show up as my best. And, hopefully, it won't be held against me. 

Alex Cullimore: The worries. That makes sense. That's a mountain to face. And we can continue to unpack that one. But I'm curious, just one last question, how might it look to be 100% energetically engaged in this moment of unknowability? 

Cristina Amigoni: This is the episode of quotes. I'm pretty sure I do this in every episode. But it's those realizations of everything is temporary. But, also, when you look around and everything looks dark, look deeper, because you may be the light. And so, finding that speck of light in me in those moments that everything feels dark and foggy. 

Alex Cullimore: Actually, the best of luck with that. That's a great way of thinking about it in a good knowledge of, in the middle of darkness, that there's always light within. Even if we are looking for the light without, or outside of ourselves, there's always light within.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.

Alex Cullimore: Good luck facing this week. I will be obviously in touch a lot of it – 

Cristina Amigoni: Well, the week is almost over. So that helps. 

Alex Cullimore: Well, I'm thinking more in the calendar week. By next Wednesday as well.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Well, thank you.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. And thank you, guys, for listening.

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you.

[OUTRO]

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you for listening to Uncover the Human, a Siamo podcast. 

Alex Cullimore: Special thanks to our podcast operations wizard, Jake Lara; and our score creator, Rachel Sherwood. 

Cristina Amigoni: If you have enjoyed this episode, please share, review and subscribe. You can find our episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. 

Alex Cullimore: We would love to hear from you with feedback, topic ideas or questions. You can reach us at podcast@wearesiamo.com, or at our website, wearesiamo.com, LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook. We Are Siamo is spelled W-E A-R-E S-I-A-M-O.

Cristina Amigoni: Until next time, listen to yourself, listen to others and always uncover the human.

[END]