Coaching Through iPEC’s COR.E Dynamics: Authenticity

This episode includes our interpretations of copyrighted works done by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching or iPEC. 

Alex Cullimore: Emotion and intelligence or logic has like three components of decision making. It's when you feel like you're fighting against your intuition, you're fighting against your fear. You're either repressing feelings fighting against your intuition, or trying to justify or rationalize something. I think all of that cost so much energy.

Alex Cullimore: Welcome to Uncover the Human where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives.

Cristina Amigoni: Whether that's with our families, coworkers, or even ourselves.

Alex Cullimore: When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.

Cristina Amigoni: This is Cristina Amigoni.

Alex Cullimore: This is Alex Cullimore. Let's dive in.

“Authenticity means freedom.”

“Authenticity means going with your gut.”

“Authenticity is bringing 100% of yourself not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you.”

“Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself.”

“It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep-rooted and true.”

“Authenticity is when you truly know yourself. You remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be.”

“It's transparency, relatability. No frills. No makeup. Just being.”

[EPISODE]

Alex Cullimore: Welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human. We are continuing our series interpreting some of iPEC's material on COR.E Dynamics. This one feels like a good crossover hit between Uncover the Human and COR.E Dynamics, because the discipline we're talking about today is authenticity. This is an exciting crossover hit for us. This has been what we've been exploring the entire time on the podcast. It's the fifth discipline on the list of them. This is where it really starts to, I think, not be as sequential.

We've talked a lot about, hey, awareness and begets, practice, and acceptance, and then you can do conscious choice, and then you have to trust the process. And they all kind of interplay with each other. A lot of the next six are just great disciplines in general, and are all supported, especially, by the first four, but there may be less linear in nature. So, this one's just kind of a fun one to jump into, and an incredibly powerful place to start when you're thinking mindset. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, and a great crossover with our podcast. We should be experts on authenticity at this point, even though it may be an oxymoron.

Alex Cullimore: Authenticity is interesting that way, because it is almost an oxymoron to try and be an expert in authenticity. It's such an exploration. It's such an endless journey. I mean, the old quote is like the only constant in life is change. So, to be authentic, you have to also be authentically changing. It's not like you discover this authentic self, and you're there forever. Even if there are core components and threads you can tie in that will last for a lifetime. It's not all the same and every chapter of life is different, and every expression can be different. It's still authentic and that's kind of an interesting dichotomy to have to hold in your head.

Cristina Amigoni: It is. If you think about in the trust the process, which was the last discipline, part of it is believing and accepting that we are working progress. So, the process of us discovering ourselves and growing, it's constant, and it's always going to be a little bit different. Authenticity goes very well with that. As in, my authentic self now, it's a different from my authentic self in a minute, in five minutes, in an hour. So, it is a constant discipline, it is a constant exploration, and it’s constant practice to show up that way. It's not a metal. We don't just say like, “I'm authentic and I'm done. There's my trophy.”

Alex Cullimore: Oh, that's such a good way of putting it. We don't get to a finish line on this. It's very much goes to the mastery mindset too, of just there's an endless work in progress. The interesting change, I think, I like that you mentioned that trust the process relies on us being a work in progress. One of the interesting things about authenticity is that while it takes diligence and it takes effort, it is about being. It is about like, that you are at all times, a work in progress, but not that you are moving necessarily towards something. You will be inevitably changing, but authenticity goes back to this natural state of being.

In COR.E Dynamics, they talk a little bit about the kind of difference between forcing, and being. If you're forcing and you're being effortful, you're putting on a mask. You hear something that's not necessarily authentic. It takes work, it takes efforts, to be that, to put on that façade, and authenticity is so much more into being and trusting that you are you and you are enough, and you are unique and that's all as should be.

Cristina Amigoni: That's a great distinction. Once you learn to embrace your authenticity, and have the courage to put it out there, and you're accepted, so you feel the acceptance and the value on the other hand from it. It's amazing how clear it becomes when how much effort it takes to not be authentic, and how much drainage of energy it takes. At least for me, like actually get physically disturbed when I feel like I'm not being authentic or I'm not allowed to be authentic. I don't feel that the space allows for that.

I remember in one of the many temporary ends with one of our clients, one of the last meetings of a series of meetings, we provided some acknowledgement and gratitude at the end. The only thing that I could say to them was thank you for allowing us to be us because they did. They allowed us to show up authentically every time, in every meeting, and they accepted us and valued us for being us. It was so liberating and so energizing, that it allowed for a lot of the earlier disciplines of trusting the process, when we didn't know which way we needed to go when they didn't know which way they needed to go. There was a lot of just trusting the process. Let's just go through the motion.

There was a lot of awareness and acceptance and conscious choice on how do we want to show up what's acceptable, what's not acceptable, what do we want to do here. And then we'll look at the future disciplines, but allowing us to be us, guide us to be fearless. Fearlessness is the next discipline. But that was definitely a key component of being able to try new things and see how they go. If they don't work, well tweak. But without having to put this facade and this armor and especially working with us, they realized pretty quickly that we're not the typical business stuff you like. So, we got to use memes, and GIFs, and jokes, and cartoons in slides. And we got to start meetings on Friday mornings with pictures of puppies, because it was a Friday morning, and it was the end of the week. And we knew it was a stressful one. And it was a good way to lighten up the mood.

So, those are the pieces that really, I think, allowed us to expand and do a lot more than we probably would have done if we had to fit in a mold. So, we probably wouldn't have fit in the mold. We were just saying our goodbyes.

Alex Cullimore: We're just been rolling along with a lot of friction.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. We would have been part of the very long list of consultants that don't make it past a few weeks.

Alex Cullimore: That is a great description of how it felt on the inside. We definitely got to be ourselves. And what that then unlocked was, we could then be – and we could deliver so much more, ironically, business value, by not like putting on this business front. We ended up able to create all kinds of space to open up a bunch of change possibilities. And anytime we'd come up with ideas that we knew were going to be met with resistance, but necessary in the long term, we'd have like jokes and cartoons about change management consultants, because we were kind of billed out as that and we'd have one – my favorite one is like, two guys walking along and they're like, “Oh, no, I think the staff loves that we hired change management consultants.” But you can see like other people ready to dump a pile of goo on their head. It's like a carry moment.

But those are the kinds of things that we're happy to like – we know that it becomes frustrating. We're here to also create the value. We're going to create the space to go help whatever we're promoting, deliver, and deliver successfully. And because they've given us some space, and we were giving them space, it became a great partnership. But it was much easier for everybody to deliver a lot more value than what’s going to be present before. I mean that in the business sense, because that's kind of the important value exchange. But it also became just a comfortable way to work and be.

Cristina Amigoni: One of my favorite things about authenticity is that the more we practice this discipline to show up authentically, the more we create the space for others to do the same. We're giving permission for everybody else to do the same. So, if it's about loving puppies, if it's about joking, if it's about having a bad day, and showing up, and actually saying, “It's a bad day.” Any of those things become allowed and there's a space for that, which also allows for then the gifts and the talents of that person to show up as well. Because there's so much effort that we put into armors and masks, and 10 layers deep of what we should be saying, and how we should be saying it, and the tone, and what's appropriate, and what's not appropriate that we forget who we are. Learning to live in that authenticity, to go through the discipline of authenticity, really gives you permission to be you, and it frees up infinite possibilities.

Alex Cullimore: It is incredible the amount of power is created and then shared. I think that's the best part about authenticity. And it reminds me of like something we've mentioned a couple times on the podcast of, there's the idea of like rugged individualism, where it's like every person for themselves, and then there's like, rubbing up against each other in an unhelpful way. Then, there's the idea of soft individualism where everybody is still themselves and expressing that fully, while that is okay in a system of other people also expressing themselves. So, that soft individual, where all of the individuality can be brought together and all of that power can be harnessed. I think, that's the real core of – human power comes from that authenticity.

I think, so much of the coaching that I do with the leaders, and that we do with clients, and that we do in facilitation, is about helping people find that authenticity. So much of it is like we get so much in our own way thinking we should be some way else. We have to be some other way. We're too caught up in what mask we have to put on that when we put that down and we really invest in knowing ourselves and what that unlocks, it's so much easier. The difference between living in power and living in force, and having to force something through, versus just living with power that you're exuding that other people will feel, and then I'll knock their own. It is incredibly potent as the more you get into it.

I'm very glad that we've gotten to get on this journey to go experience that in the workplace, at a place that especially can be pretty crushing on trying to beat yourself.

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed, yes. Well, I think the way that the podcast started with the overall theme of authenticity, and how do you live an authentic life? How do you discover your own authenticity? What does it mean? It allows us, and the timing of it having to work on the podcast here in COVID, and then having more client time. Once the podcast was up and running, we had already given ourselves permission to be authentic, and we already knew what it felt like, which is something you can't unlearn.

Once you get there, and you've had that feeling, and you want that feeling to be there all the time, or as much as possible, you don't want to really compromise how much it's there. Because you see the possibilities of what can be done. So, once we started having to do both, podcasts and a lot more client work, in my mind, at least, it was a lot easier to first show up authentically. And second, if I couldn't walk away, and not compromise that because I knew the feeling. I knew what was possible in authenticity. It's one of those things that is we look at life, and we look at the one finite thing is our time in our lives, then well, sorry, but I'm too old, to have to show up for somebody else. You want somebody else, then hire somebody else. It's that easy.

I can give you names. Tell me which mold you want and which puppet, or which type of persona you want, and I could probably recommend you other names. But this is who we are. This is how we show up. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. That's it. There's no harm. There's no foul. It's just, it doesn't work. And when it works, it works really, really well.

Alex Cullimore: Once you've gotten out of that box, there's no climbing back in. That's the most miserable thing in the world to go try and fold yourself back into a mold and feel that effort and that pinch. And it really does constrain who you are and what you do when you come in and constantly feel like you're bumping up against a barrier that you know once you've experienced, it doesn't have to be there. Once you know that, you can't unknow that.

Cristina Amigoni: You really can’t. And I find it, I mean, if I look at my why as being the quote, to make sure that everybody feels like a somebody. That somebody, it's the authentic selves. It's the authentic somebody. When I see that in others, I find life meaning, honestly. My life has a meaning because I see it. I see them shine. I see all these stars. And it's incredible to be able to provide that space, whether it's juggling in the middle of a leadership training. Because at some point we joked about juggling, and two people are actually really good jugglers. So, they started juggling. Or singing or dancing or anything that comes up, making jokes, at ourselves, at each other, at others.

There's so many ways that it can be manifested, and you just feel the walls come down. It's almost like you can see them come down and you see the potential. You're not just the potential, but you see the real magic, the real person, and everything that they are capable of doing, and everything they are. One of the biggest compliments that we have been getting thankfully, very often is, “Thank you for being you.” It's not, thank you for doing this. Not thank you for the PowerPoint. Not thank you for that. Not thank you for the model. Not thank you for it. No, it's, thank you for being you. That's when I know we've showed up as us, because that’s the gratitude we get.

Alex Cullimore: Yes, luckily a couple of comments that there's so many people that have gone through so many trainings that I just expect it to be bored. I saw like three days of training and I was not bored for any of the days. That's the point. That's the fun. That's the engagement. That's where you know you have them. And I remember our guest, Matias, would describe authenticity as like the sun. The sun is like your authentic self. It's always there. There are sometimes clouds in a way, and there's sometimes things we let get in the way. But it's always there. So, I felt like that, when you get to see people, you see glimmers and poking through and some shining the moments we’re like, “Ah, there's the person. There it is.” And all you want to do is wipe the clouds away as fast as possible. When you get to see people like really step into that, it's incredibly fulfilling.

Cristina Amigoni: It is. It is. Yes. I love that description of authenticity that Matias provided. When we think about the discipline in COR.E Dynamics, what it helps through coaching is to figure out how can we wipe away our own clouds, and how can we help others as well. Create the space for them to wipe away their clouds. But it's the power of the discipline, I think, it's that is recognizing when there are clouds and knowing how to wipe them away.

Alex Cullimore: We talked about things like levels of energy. Authenticity is one of those that feels like one of those core, almost like level seven. This is just an expression of like full-on personal power of like, I can just do things and this is who I am, and you don't worry that much about people who did it. You know that this is who you are, you know that you can provide help, you know you can be connected to people. It won't connect with everybody and that's fine. There's comfort in that too and just knowing that like – and same for like the business. Here, you were just talking about, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. It's not even like blaming them. It's not a bad thing. The fit for us, that's fine. You want to do something else, you can do something else. But we'd like to move at 10x speed, and we can only do that if we can be ourselves. Once you've moved at that speed, you don't want to slow yourself down.

Cristina Amigoni: Another great analogy. Like you don't want to slow yourself, but you really see it as a waste of time. It's a waste of time and energy. It's like, if I can't be me, then I don't need to be here. There's other rooms, there's other places, there's other people, there's other opportunities where I can be me. I'd rather spend my time there, because I rather go to bed at night and think about, was I able to show up as my authentic self today? If the answer is yes, then it was a good day. If it was no, then something needs to change. Because there's so many days of no that you could possibly tolerate without starting to get into health issues, that affects the health, well-being, mental being relationships, success, career success, business success, it's all interchanged into the type of energy that you put in there, and the type of energy depends on, was accepted as me? Was I valued as me?

Alex Cullimore: I think that's one of the best ways to get in touch with whether you are feeling authentic or not, is what type of energy is used? We all have some physical limits. I really feel engaged when we do these leadership trainings. It's really fun. There’s just full days of engagement. At the end of it, I'll be physically tired. I’ll be worn out. But it's a very different type of tired than being emotionally tired. Networking, after an hour, I'm going to be tired, and eight hours in, I'm going to like want to crawl into the couch, like inside the couch and just sit in the dark.

Cristina Amigoni: Well, at least you made it eight hours. You made it an hour. Just the thought of networking makes me want to crawl inside the couch and hope another pandemic, so nobody has to go anywhere. Please don’t. Not a room full of surface-level conversations.

Alex Cullimore: It is because of authenticity, though, too, I think. Because those surface-level conversations, they have titles. This is the thing that I'm trying to promote or trying to get promoted. You come across as authentic, because there's no relationship built yet. Building relationships is fine. Meeting new people is fine. If you do it under the auspices of like when we're going to trade business cards and have to try and provide value where there's no reason to continue this conversation. It's like putting your house on quicksand. There's just only so much you can build on that foundation.

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. Yes. It’s one of the many situations. What I like about authenticity, too, is that once you feel it, and you see what happens when you're in that space, and you see how the world reacts, and on all these other things around you, you find that you're look for it everywhere, even in how you write messages, or how you do marketing or social media, or how you put yourself out there. So, when you read something that maybe somebody else wrote, or that you're trying out, at least my first gate is like, “Does this actually feel authentic? Would I say this? Because I believe in it.” And if I can't believe in it, and I just recoil at thinking of saying that, I'm like, “Nope, wrong message. Change those words around. I am not putting my name next to that.”

That's actually why I have a love-hate relationship with ChatGPT. I love using it for research. I love the ideas that it can generate. I like how quickly it could summarize things. I like how it can sometimes like give you a great starting point. But if I started to read it, and any piece of it feels like not my voice, I start to shut down, and I cringe, and I can't read the rest of it. I don't want to spend the time to edit it, to make it something else. I'd rather just go back and write it myself. 

So, I have this like continual back and forth where I probably just need to let that one go and figure out how to use the pieces that are helpful. But once I do read that, and I feel like, “Oh, God, that's not what I would say today”, it starts to derail –

Cristina Amigoni: Very quickly, very quickly.

Alex Cullimore: It's one of the things that made be both and okay, and a terrible editor for other people's papers. I like read it, and I'd be like, “Oh, that's great.” I'm like, “I wouldn't say it that way.” I'm like, “Maybe it’s not about how I would say it, though.” 

Cristina Amigoni: That would be difficult when you’re with somebody else. I run into that every once in a while, with Jeff's books when he will say something, and I'm like, “Why are you seeing it that way?” He goes, “Because that's how I say it.” I'm like, “Okay. Not how I would say it, but it's your book, not mine.” That's why he stopped asking me to read these books.

Alex Cullimore: Found a different editor.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Found a different editor.

Alex Cullimore: Sorry. Anyway, this is clearly a topic we're very passionate about. We have already talked much more about this intro then we have been to the other ones and this one's a lot of authenticity –

Cristina Amigoni: I know. Three years into a podcast in authenticity, I would hope so.

Alex Cullimore: Which is a good testament to how much staying power and how much core power that authenticity has. If there's three years and there's so much more exploration still to do, both in self and others. If it's something fun here and something that has a lot of potential.

Cristina Amigoni: So, should we do quick coaching?

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, since we're on kind of on an abbreviated one.

Cristina Amigoni: Maybe one question. It's always one question. It's what happens after the question. That's the problem.

Alex Cullimore: Would you like to choose this time? Would you like to not choose?

Cristina Amigoni: I will choose and I will coach.

Alex Cullimore: Okay. Fire away then.

Cristina Amigoni: All right. So, my one question for you is what's preventing you from being authentic?

Alex Cullimore: That's a wide one. Is there a specific scenario? My thoughts are more focused on the last recording. So, this won't be quite as meandering.

What's preventing me from being authentic? Mostly, it comes out with anytime that some fear of judgment or – the thing that really, I guess, I have to pick one of the big buckets where this comes out most, it would be fear of judgment in a relationship. I know enough and experienced enough authenticity at this point to know that generally, if there's enough of that, or if that's a continued pattern in a relationship, then it's time to either change or leave that relationship. I think that I ended up more often delayed in trying to get to that authenticity when I have that fear, because then it might be like losing a relationship, or I might have to change that. I just don't want to let that go, even if I can feel like that's not an authentic space. And then it ends up kind of compounding, because then you have to act inauthentic to stay in it and you kind of know you shouldn't be, or I know shouldn't be. I'm using the royal you now and then reporting standards, if it's like everywhere else.

This is my personal experience on that, is that I feel like I should change, to try to stay – to keep a relationship, and in a lot of ways being highly relationship-focused has been very beneficial for me. But there is that if it's not an authentic relationship, it can be very costly to only focus on the relationship, and try and maintain a connection that isn't secure, isn't authentic. So, I think that's the fears that come up around changing inauthentic relationships tend to lead to other inauthenticities. 

Cristina Amigoni: That makes a lot of sense. The fear of the loss and everything that's involved with the disconnection of the relationship. It's a loss. So, they're still grieving, when that happens. There's probably grieving happening while you're in authentic relationships. So, it's compounded grieving. It's a different kind of grieving. It could be a prime place for Gremlins to come out, and you know good enough Gremlins to come out. It could be that, and I did hear a lot of shoulds in there. A lot of, “I should stay connected, should work it out, should not lose the relationship.” How can you look at the relationship in a different way, when you get to the point of realizing this is not an authentic relationship, and it may be time to let it go?

Alex Cullimore: I think, to some of our point earlier, before we started the coaching portion, I think that I don't do a great job of always remembering in the moments and certainly not always. When I get into the mode of like having to like try and protect a relationship or feeling like I have to like hold up relationship over being authentic, I think that I lose sight of the cost of that. We were just talking about you get to do it 10x speed. You get to step into and be in a far greater form of power.

So, the cost is not just that it is the current energy drain of not being authentic, it's that you're using time and space, that you could otherwise use to go build an authentic relationship, to go be part of something, or to go put effort into something that you want to build, you want to do something that is more authentically connected to who you are. Maybe it's a different relationship, maybe it's working on your business, a passion project, a hobby, just working on your life being you, being whatever that is. It's not only the energy drain that happens while you're actively face to-face with that person, you're in a relationship with that isn't authentic. It's the energy drain afterwards, where you have to kind of rebuild yourself, and you've used up so much energy, putting up a facade that now you have to go find a way to gain energy back against. There's a lot of lost time and energy and mental space, and that you could use to something that is much more connected to yourself and who you want to be and how you want to be.

Cristina Amigoni: Awareness. The cost not just at the moment, but in general, before and after, and on everything else. So, when you think about a relationship where you feel it's inauthentic relationship, how do you recognize it's inauthentic? What makes it inauthentic?

Alex Cullimore: It's the energy spent, almost assuredly. It's how much weight that carries. And it's when you feel like you're pressured to – it's when I feel like I'm pressured to do something that's not, for lack of a better term, authentic. But like to dive in deeper on what that would mean to feel authentic, it’s kind of like we were talking about, like the intuition. So, emotion and intelligence or logic has like three components of decision-making. It's when you feel like you're fighting against your intuition, you're fighting against your feelings. You're either repressing feelings, fighting against your intuition, or trying to justify or rationalize something. I think all of that costs so much energy.

So, there's the recognition of a couple parts, like are you avoiding reaching out to that person? If you are avoiding reaching out to that person, why? Is it because you feel like there's some pressure of like, for me, is it, I felt times where I just didn't have like, I feel like I had the right or perfect response, or I wanted to be able to think about it for longer or whenever. I've been avoiding just trying to make a decision. That's probably not the relationship issue. That's just something else to focus on.

But if it is like, that I don't want to continue to like engage in that relationship, that's a red flag. And if it's after spending time with somebody, there's been like an energy drain and I'm feeling just worn out, that just emotional fatigue. It’s like, “Oh, man, I'm so glad to be home not because like, I finally get a chance to rest but because I couldn't possibly put this mask on for another hour, or whatever it is.” Those are the main signs of just that feeling of exhaustion, or procrastination and delay in trying to avoid engaging.

Cristina Amigoni: Makes a lot of sense. So, when you're in these situations, what would your authentic self like to do?

Alex Cullimore: It really depends on the moment. There are times when it's like you want authentic Hulk to come out and just throw over the table and throw over the relationship and be like, “Nope, this is who I am, and take it or leave it.” Then, run and dash out of the room and smash a lot of tables on the way out. There's other times where it's just like, “This is not a time or space or energy usage I want, and I want to go get invested in things I want to be part of.” Usually, it just wants to be heard. Usually, just a matter of wanting to be seen and not wanting to feel like it's not okay to be authentic and to be myself and to be out there. It's just wanting to feel like it's okay to be in a space, and the authentic self to be in a space, and take that space, and to just be a part of the equation instead of like an observer to it. It's usually, it wants to be engaged in what's happening.

Cristina Amigoni: It’s a big part of being authentic is being able to be present and engaged into presence. When you think about these types of relationships, how can you recognize what's happening before the cost becomes higher and higher, on energy present and future?

Alex Cullimore: I have to pay attention to those feelings as they crop up. Usually, I let them build up much more slowly. I'll just push it down or ignore it. There's times where that's useful. Somebody can just have an off day and it's not that they're trying to like, not able to connect or not be authentic. It's just they're not there that day. But I often take that too far. And I'll give too many days where it might be like that, or where I'm starting to feel like it's not possible to engage authentically, and I'm ignoring that feeling long enough that it builds up.

So, it's more awareness of that feeling in advance, and then tying that back to the other times this has happened. This is a snowballing thing. It cascades into either like a long-term unhealthy relationship where it feels like there's like no ability to have boundaries, there's no ability to be yourself, and it's just draining. Or it just becomes something that you have to rip the band-aid off at some point, paying attention to those signs ahead of time, bringing awareness to them, and bringing awareness to the patterns that have existed before when those came up would, I think, help move to action of like, “Yes, okay.” So, I can either commit to putting my head in the sand ignoring this again, or I can do something about this.

Cristina Amigoni: That makes sense. What are some things that you could do? We talked about the cost of keeping these types of relationships around. What are the benefits?

Alex Cullimore: The benefits are, A, avoiding temporary discomfort. Avoiding uncomfortable conversations and avoiding having to cut out relationships, which is just an uncomfortable process when it feels like you have to get to that point. That kind of plays into like, “Well, I guess fighting social loneliness or feeling like you should have people around, or want to be able to have people to be able to connect with and talk to”, realistically as defined here, these sorts of relationships where it's not actually connecting to these people. So, it's kind of a false flag to put it up, as like a point of connection. But it is a mental influencer on letting that go feels like cutting off an outlet, even if it's not actually a reasonable outlet.

Cristina Amigoni: It's hard. There's no doubt that that it can definitely be hard for all those reasons. There's a lot of self-preservation that goes into staying in an unhealthy or inauthentic relationship. So, how can you move forward and know which way you should be going in the relationship when it starts to feel inauthentic.

Alex Cullimore: One thing that has really saved me in the last year and a half especially, has been really understanding what relationships have been authentic, and knowing the power of those, and finding some more along the way, especially, going through things like the coaching programs. Met so many great people who are genuinely invested in each other and you want to see them succeed. They want to see you succeed. Great at listening, supporting, being there, and you want to be there for them, and feeling those kinds of connections, it reduced a lot of the scarcity mindset of feeling like you have to hold on to every relationship.

So, there's a huge part of that, of just knowing that there's other relationships to go to, and that I want to spend my time on those. It's doing some of that just evaluation work and being willing to look at this scary possibility of I have to change this relationship somehow. Maybe it's a hard conversation, maybe it's stepping away from the relationship. But having to face down and actually just turn into that decision, instead of avoiding that decision, about what to do about it and when to do it, that would be the most powerful step to take.

Cristina Amigoni: What kind of support would you need for that?

Alex Cullimore: Honestly, I kind of reach out to you in those moments, just moments where it just I need to rely on those relationships. So, that's also still personally I’m going to have to continue to work on and improve that I need to reach out at those times. I’ve been getting a lot better that in recent months, and I need to solidify that as a habit. Because right now, it's still a lot of like reminding myself to do that and then getting into that zone and seeing the response from actual close relationships is really reaffirmed that those are real relationships and that those are worth relying on and it's easier to go step into that over and over again. But I like to continue that and make sure that becomes a habit, not just at times where I'm facing something that feels overwhelming and stressful enough that I feel like I have to reach out. But it can also just be a thing to reach out to, just as a potential for support in even non-exhausting and stressful situations.

Cristina Amigoni: That's very good awareness, and a lot of wording changes from should to want.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. That's a huge shift to want. That's a big one. That's a good point. I can feel that difference.

Cristina Amigoni: What else could help you?

Alex Cullimore: On that, we did that retreat with everybody a couple a few weeks back last month, whatever, and I really loved the values exercise that we did with Erin and Lauren, and reminding kind of myself – you have that great quote that you have, I want to make sure that everybody can be somebody. How do you phrase it?

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, make sure that everybody feels like a somebody.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. Make sure everybody feels like a somebody. That's such a great mantra and it's such a great encapsulation of how you interact with the world, or who you just are. I think, coming up with an even more succinct version of that, I started coming up with pieces of that at the retreat, and came up with a few ones that really felt better and connected. So, if I really tuned to that one in I think more, it would be an easier mantra to return to, to kind of remind like, “Hey, this is where my actual personal source of power comes from.”

Cristina Amigoni: Great. Great realization in how to use some tools that you've already, and some work that you've already gone through, and take it to the next step, to go back to your authentic self, in order to have an authentic life. What else can we wrap up in this coaching session?

Alex Cullimore: Oh, that's good. That's a good wrap. That just helps kind of unpack how to move forward on sticky relationships.

Cristina Amigoni: Good word. Sticky relationships. As in they stick like gum under your shoe or their sticky because of good connections?

Alex Cullimore: More of the first. Just can't shake it up, but you feel like you want to.

Cristina Amigoni: It’s like, “Get off.”

Alex Cullimore: You got to change something about this. Good relationships, that don't feel like I'm on the shoe, and I wouldn’t describe them as sticky. Maybe sticky in a totally different sense.

Cristina Amigoni: Gum in the here relationship. Which relationships in your life feel like gum when you're here? That's the whole point –

Alex Cullimore: And what peanut butter do you need to apply?

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Or Coke. Or your gut.

Alex Cullimore: Fancy one. We've got a lot of good comparisons on this one. Makes sense. We've spent a lot of time on authenticity.

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. All right. That's a wrap, for you, at least.

Alex Cullimore: Time to turn that one around.

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, can't wait.

Alex Cullimore: You sound excited. I actually kind of want to start at the same place. It's an open-ended one. But it's, let's see, see where you want to go with it. What's preventing you from being authentic?

Cristina Amigoni: It's a good question. What's preventing me from being authentic? I would say I'm not answering the question yet. But generally speaking, I have done a lot of work, to not be in an inauthentic situations, and to recognize when I am. What usually comes up that's preventing me from being authentic is – or fear to when my own Gremlin gets really loud, and starts wanting to drive the car. Fear of losing people, I would say. And even then has gone down a little bit.

So, there's definitely a lot of self-preservation instinct that comes in. I've also learned to recognize how much catabolic energy and effort it takes to be in an inauthentic relationships or inauthentic situations that are not really willing to go there. And so, taking a long time meandering around this answer.

If I think of situations, I felt like I wasn't being authentic, I would say is when – here's an example. Is when a relationship that I feel it's solid, and where  my authenticity has been able to come out and shine, and being accepted, takes a turn that's unexpected. So, whether it's a turn that I'm involved in or not, or it's something else, some other external influencers. But when I'm starting to feel that there's lack of harmony, that's when I start questioning who I am, and how I need to show up. So, I will speak less, maybe, in situation that I potentially would because I'm afraid on stepping on toes and I feel like I have to walk on eggshells.

I stopped doing the autopilot habits that I would do, especially in relationships. For example, because you're on the receiving end of that. When I read or see something inspiring whether it's Instagram or LinkedIn, those are pretty much the only two places where we’re looking for inspiring, like actually hear stuff from, or even a podcast, I guess. My instinct is like, “This inspired me, I'm going to share it with my inner circle, with the people that this could resonate with, the people that could be entertained by it.” So, when I feel like I have the instinct to share it, and I stopped myself, because I don't know where we are in the relationship, that's when I start recognizing that I am not authentic. Which is, as you are described in your examples, or in your sharing, it's a snowball effect. Because then, I stopped being authentic, which usually drives the other person to start recognizing. Sometimes, I don't know, I'm in their head. But if we actually ended up talking about it, and clearing the air, it usually drives the other person to think that there's something off, that the harmony is off, so they are not showing up authentically. Then, it's just this compounding thing that comes up.

The ways that I recognize that what could be different things, but the way I recognize that is when I started having a lot of internal dialogues, especially in the shower. That's when I know something is off.

Alex Cullimore: That's great awareness of both key things that you'd like to do authentically and I'd like your description of harmony. That's a great way to connect to that. Sounds like there's some ability to be in sync with people for a while, while you're authentic. And then when there's a disruption, it's easy for that harmony to fall out. Then, there can be kind of compounding effects on that, where they don't feel the harmony, and then they start to pull away or act differently, and that can become even more unharmonic, disharmonic. I don't know what the other end of that is. That's a good mental image for how that might work.

You mentioned something interesting upfront about how they can kind of be also from some amount of self-preservation. You understand that energy that takes to be inauthentic. How does that self-preservation tie into some of this relationship piece you're talking about?

Cristina Amigoni: Fear of being alone. I mean, if I look at my Gremlin as being the eraser or feeling invisible, a disconnection or lack of harmony, then puts me in, straight into facing the being invisible. When I saw a fight – I want to go back to the original question, what prevented me from being authentic is when I feel like I'm invisible, because of the circumstances, because of whatever is going on. But when I feel like I'm invisible, it's interesting. Instead of combating that with authenticity, I now have to question who I am. It makes me question who I am and how I show up, especially when it's not – when it's from the beginning, I don't even engage. So, if it's from the beginning that I get out, that's where my tolerance has gone to pretty much zero in those situations.

If I walk into a new situation and I feel invisible, then you know what, you may be getting half of the second chance, but probably not. That second chance better be happening in the same interaction, otherwise, we're out. But when that invisibility shows up in situations where it's not usually there, that's when everything comes into question. Then, I have this constant internal battle between if I walk away, I am now alone. If I'm alone, I am now alone, which means, saber-toothed tigers can attack me and I'm done. And if I don't walk away, I have to show up differently, because I don't know how to show up anymore, and that's also not acceptable. So, it's a lose-lose situation.

Alex Cullimore: So, do you find yourself in these situations where there's been some harmony for some time, and then there's a disruption in that, and it makes sense that that would be particularly jarring? And it makes sense that you've got another learned experience at this point that you're not going to invest in new relationship that starts out without harmony? Enough signals that are showing this is not going to – so if you find yourself in a situation where it has worked out well for a while, it gets disrupted somehow, what are options you have addressing that?

Cristina Amigoni: So, at first is giving everybody the benefit of the doubt, including myself. So, not judging one situation, not judging one interaction. Really harnessing the curiosity about what I'm feeling and what's going on with me, which could very much likely have nothing to do with the person that the harmony is broken with. Or it may be, but it's not the main influencer. There could be many other influences around it. So, a lot of kind of self-exploration, which I should probably do through journaling, kind of use my close circle of people as my journals. So, I just get to vomit when I'm feeling all over them, instead of writing it down.

So, that's part of it. Also, providing that curiosity for the other person or people involved, and trying to see like what could be influencing this that's not me. So, trying to really not take it personally in the sense of like, “I'm actually not the center of the universe. So, this may not have anything to do with me.” The harmony is still broken, or still bent. If it doesn't get resolved on its own, it needs to be addressed. For that, I usually give it a timeline based on circumstances. A couple of tries. I tried in other interactions, see how it goes. Maybe try another one. Depending on the external influencers that may be in play. Give a timeline. Is it one week? Is it two weeks? Over two weeks is way too long.

Probably, a week or two if the circumstances warrant that. Also, look for the shift in energy and see like, is there an opportunity in the shift in energy? Is the energy of disharmony there all the time with the interaction? Or is it just sometimes? And depending on that balance, address it. I'm definitely a big one on addressing it, without necessarily making it personal as, what did I do? Because maybe I didn't do anything at all. But opening the door for possible sharing. Like, “Hey, everything, okay?” And if the harmony is still there, actually say like, it's kind of feeling a little bit chilly on this side of the relationship. Anything I need to know?

So, keeping some curiosity but also addressing the elephant in the room, and not just letting it be there and pretend it's not there. It’s like, “I feel it. I see it. You feel it. You see it. So, can we not dance around it?”

Alex Cullimore: Curiously addressing the elephant, that's a great phrase. That makes sense. So, you've got lots of different frameworks there of like how and where you're going to approach this and how you might give some space and what timeline feels acceptable to you, and how you might address this, and wanting to go into that with curiosity. What you've also mentioned, and you mentioned this on a previous session, as well. You were talking about, it can be hard because you are very good at jumping in and wanting to address the elephant and other people may not always be in that space. This is another situation of life, because you're thrown in it might cause some questions, raise a Gremlin for you, have the eraser kind of come out and be worried about those pieces, how can you give yourself space in those moments where it's between feeling the disharmony originally, and being able to address it?

Cristina Amigoni: One of the things that's helped me a lot is thinking, not minimizing the disharmony, but not making the whole relationship. So, thinking about what would my authentic self do, without this feeling of disharmony? How would I actually show up in this situation, had the interaction not feel changed in the last few days, weeks, whatever it is. Well, again, weeks is too long. Days, hours. Then, try to see what happens then before – because there may not be an elephant to address, or the elephant may not be between us. It may be just external. Also, they may not be the right timing to address the elephant.

I mean, eventually, if the relationship is sexually authentic, and there's true connection, the elephant is going to come up. It may be weeks later, but it's going to come up, eventually. So, try that a few times. Just think, like, what would my authentic self do without this feeling? Would I share the inspiring meme? Or would I reach out and say, hi? Would I do that? If the answer is yes, then do it anyway. Even though there seems to be something, but again, that's something I don't know what it is, I don't know if it's me, them, something else. So, let's see how goes. If that gets shut down, that's when it becomes a bigger exploration of is this how it is now? Is this how the relationship is now? If it is, do I want to accept it? Is this a relationship I want to be continuing working on? Or is it? Relationships end. It's just how it is.

With that change that we go through life that we talked about, relationships are a big part of that. And it does take decades to get to accepting that, because it's painful every time. But they do. They change. Sometimes they don't end, but the way they work ends, and there's a new way, and some just ain't. Most just ain't.

Alex Cullimore: It make sense. It’s what we’re talking about earlier about there being a constant change in life and being authentic is also being authentic in that change. It's being new to who you are, when you are new, and being there for that person. One interesting portion, if we relate back to some of the authenticity in this, you mentioned that when you have that moment, and that disharmony, you can sometimes call into question like, who am I in this relationship? And who am I on the outside?

Cristina Amigoni: It's very hard. It's definitely very hard, because the immediate reaction and the immediate thought, and the very loud Gremlin in my head is you are no longer accepted as who you are. In some cases, you were never accepted as who you are. So, you were disillusioned. You saw something that was never there. That becomes really, really difficult to work through.

I would say, yes, I mean, sharing with others, being able to externalize all the feelings and getting – either coach friends or coaching around it helps a ton. For me, I can't process things internally, and I can't process things by myself. So, when I stop trying to, if it's something that I feel it's safe to share, then that's the first thing I go to once I notice that that disturbance is, it's longer than if you – than just a little bit. It's bigger than just like, there's something off. That off is becoming an elephant. And before it becomes a full-fledged elephant, keep it at the Dumbo size, I need external help. And there's always going to be instances in my life where I don't feel that I have the safety to share. So, I do have to process it internally and by myself. They’re not many, but every once in a while it happens.

Alex Cullimore: What kind of support did you get in those moments where it might have to be alone?

Cristina Amigoni: Hmm, that's a good question. Ironically enough, being allowed to be myself. So, if that means I'm not showing up, as I normally do, feeling that I'm accepted in those off moments, that helps. Because then, instead of spending the energy on the armor, I spend the energy on whatever internal work I need to do, so hat I can get back to bigger energy, higher energy.

Alex Cullimore: Or in some situations in which you feel you can be yourself? Like, you could really bring that out?
 Cristina Amigoni: Hence, I say, like most of them lately. A lot of it is the work, the work we do. I pretty much feel like I've given myself all the time. I have yet to get sucker punched for being myself, which helps.

Alex Cullimore: That'll be a crazy departure from the norm for us. That's probably like, honestly, time to get a CAT scan. Somebody's got a brain tumor and things physically changed.

Cristina Amigoni: The work we do, going on walks, having time for myself. Getting away from the situations where I can’t feel myself, where I'm more on duty, and it's more about like, “Oh, I got to do this, this and this, and this, and this”, which is usually family related. I mean, there's plenty of moments where it's just fun and being myself. But as a mom, in the house, maybe it's 50/50. I'm trying to make it so that it's less than that. But the vast majority of my life is getting stuff done. It’s duty.

Alex Cullimore: What are the things you do that don't feel like duty?

Cristina Amigoni: At home?

Alex Cullimore: Yes. However. Or in general.

Cristina Amigoni: Most work-related, I would say 90% of work-related stuff doesn't feel like duty, except for maybe somewhat accounting stuff at the end of the month and things like that. But even that, it's lower, or actually creating project plans, instead of keeping them in my head. I would say, time with friends. When I get to connect with people and I've come to the point right now in my life where I feel blessed because I don't waste time with friends. I don't waste connection energy with people that I can't be authentic with. So, that space gives me a ton of energy, because it's selective, and it's intentional, and so that helps a lot. Then, the basketball practices, and the carpooling, and the lunches, and the school plays. Being at a school play, it's fine. It's the whole remembering that there is a school play and scheduling around it. Those things become less burdensome.

Alex Cullimore: Excellent awareness and strategies to get yourself into some of that authentic power and zone. So, what else do you feel like you want to uncover or poke at in this exploration of finding your authenticity in the hard places?

Cristina Amigoni: I think I'm good. I mean, I'm sure that there's a lot more, but yes, that could be hours and hours and weeks and weeks, and I'm sure our listeners –

Alex Cullimore: Probably beyond podcast level?

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. They may not want to be around for that one.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. It's hard to go that deep on a podcast.

Cristina Amigoni: If you do want to, let’s go get some wine, somewhere.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. I think we have that scheduled this afternoon. Happy hours. So, that'll work.

Cristina Amigoni: Exactly.

Alex Cullimore: Well, thank you so much for just sharing all those, all great ideas and strategies, as well as powerful strategies you've used, that keep you in a good, authentic place. And it's good to hear that you feel like you have space to be that in so many areas of life. That's exciting. Congratulations on forming that life, too. Because that takes a lot of diligence and practice and work.

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you. I was told, I think, I probably shared it on the podcast, but a couple of years ago I went to a psychic. And the thing that she kept repeating over and over and over in half an hour was how I was keeping myself small on purpose, and I needed to stop doing that. So, I've definitely been intentional about showing up even more authentically, just because I have that voice in my head, and that voice of, “Are you keeping yourself small on purpose?” And I'm like, “No, no, no.” And if it doesn't go and it's not accepted, then I'm going to leave the room.

Alex Cullimore: That’s understandable.

Cristina Amigoni: And this is now my room or building.

Alex Cullimore: Good confidence and good non-scarcity mindset. And as Ray Brown always says, the opposite of scarcity isn’t abundance, it's enough, and there's so much comfort that we found both in business and in what you're describing here, and knowing that there's enough rooms. There’s enough other places. It's not even about finding all the other rooms and all the other places. It's knowing that there are ones out there and having that, that kind of feels like almost a trust-the-process moment.

Cristina Amigoni: Definitely trust the process moment.

Alex Cullimore: Well, thank you. Thanks for sharing.

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you. Thank you for coaching. And thanks for listening. 

Alex Cullimore: Thanks, everyone, for listening.

[OUTRO]

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you for listening to Uncover the Human, a Siamo podcast. 

Alex Cullimore: Special thanks to our podcast operations wizard, Jake Lara; and our score creator, Rachel Sherwood. 

Cristina Amigoni: If you have enjoyed this episode, please share, review and subscribe. You can find our episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. 

Alex Cullimore: We would love to hear from you with feedback, topic ideas or questions. You can reach us at podcast@wearesiamo.com, or at our website, wearesiamo.com, LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook. We Are Siamo is spelled W-E A-R-E S-I-A-M-O.

Cristina Amigoni: Until next time, listen to yourself, listen to others and always Uncover the Human.

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