Coaching Through iPEC’s COR.E Dynamics: Trusting the Process

This episode includes our interpretations of copyrighted works done by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching or iPEC. 

Alex Cullimore: Trust the process. Trust the pro – it feels like the most unhelpful thing in the world. It's like people saying like everything happens for a reason. Or something like you can find meaning, you can find reason. And that can be helpful. And that can be one of the most like frustrating or dismissive things that people can say.

Alex Cullimore: Welcome to Uncover the Human, where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives. 

Cristina Amigoni: Whether that's with our families, co-workers, or even ourselves. 

Alex Cullimore: When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.

Cristina Amigoni: This is Cristina Amigoni. 

Alex Cullimore: And this is Alex Cullimore. Let’s dive in.

Cristina Amigoni: Let’s dive in. 

“Authenticity means freedom.”

“Authenticity means going with your gut.”

“Authenticity is bringing 100% of yourself not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you.”

“Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself.”

“It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep-rooted and true.”

“Authenticity is when you truly know yourself. You remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be.”

“It's transparency, relatability. No frills. No makeup. Just being.”

[EPISODE]

Alex Cullimore: Welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human. It's just Christina and I again today as we continue our interpretation and understanding of the CORE dynamics principles from iPEC. We are on to what? The fourth discipline at this point? Yeah. Fourth discipline.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Fourth discipline. Yes. Trust the process.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. Trusting the process. Which is what we're doing in making all these podcasts. Because we're recording a lot of these before we're even starting releasing any of it. There's some trust to this process going on right now.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It feels like I need to tattoo that on my forehead. It's a permanent mantra that, every time I turn lately, it's like just trust the process. Trust the process.

Alex Cullimore: Which is working out well for us.

Cristina Amigoni: It is.

Alex Cullimore: Not in accomplishing the original plan, but in more than that. That's working.

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. Yes. Well, it's now almost an excuse. I was like, "Original plan out the window. We're trusting the process. The process just changed."

Alex Cullimore: Oh, which is a good segue into the pitfalls of trusting the process. But maybe we define what we mean by trust the process first. 

Cristina Amigoni: It may be useful. Yes.

Alex Cullimore: Let's think about like the first like three as a setup here. We talked about awareness. Being able to understand the reality and knowing what's kind of happening around you and your reactions. Being aware of all of those. Acceptance. Being really in full acceptance of those facts and awarenesses that you have and understanding what the situation is. And accepting what you have, what your reaction is, where you're going from there. 

And then that goes into our third discipline, which is making conscious choices. That is understanding well and evaluating all those facts that you have accepted. These don't always move linearly, but you can just kind of think of these first four, especially in a linear fashion. Except making conscious choices. Knowing all those facts and making a choice with those facts. Not judging your reactions. Not judging what has happened. And continuing that mastery mindset where you understand the overall trajectory that you're on, which brings us right into trusting the process. 

Now you've made a conscious choice or a few of them along the way. You know kind of your vision. What you're aiming for. You've made some choices. Now, of course, life happens. Life comes in and turns the steering wheel left on you a few times and throws some speed bumps in your way and all the things that we're used to having happen when we try and plan something to the Nth degree and then find out that none of that's going to happen. 

Trusting the process really comes down to being able to let go and learn that you are always learning. You're always on a trajectory towards something. And that Mastery mindset again of going into kind of a growth mindset. Kind of here's where we're heading. I'm going to trust that we're getting there even though there are bumps along the way. 

Cristina Amigoni: It's a good one. Yeah. It's interesting. Because I always see this. The first three are very center-driven. So, awareness, as you explain. I understand what's happening within you and around you. Acceptance. Accepting that whatever is happening, it's what it's happening. No judgment. And then making the conscious choice. It's like, "Okay. Now I've got control." 

Sometimes conscious choice is like I have some control over this madness. And then trusting the process is that left turn and like, "Okay. Now, let it go." Because you actually don't have any control.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. 

Cristina Amigoni: And also, remember in the IPEC training how this is one of those things that you heard from day one or at least I heard from day one. And it was probably said by the trainers every other sentence from the first hour. And it's this constant trust the process. 

And for the first – well, definitely throughout the entire training and then probably for the first six to 12 months after that, every time I heard it, I wanted to jump out on my own skin and punch somebody in the face.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Yeah. 

Cristina Amigoni: Because you're just facing the unknown and trying to shift the way you show up, and your careers in some cases, and your relationships and just your place in the world. And all you hear is just trust the process.

Alex Cullimore: Trust the process. Trust the pro – it feels like the most unhelpful thing in the world. It's like people saying like everything happens for a reason. Or something like you can find meaning. You can find reason. And that can be helpful. And that can be one of the most frustrating or dismissive things that people can say. And so, hearing that so many times in the middle of this training was definitely one of those moments of like, "Okay. When's the process going to start effing working?" 

Cristina Amigoni: Exactly. I'm trusting the process. I just don't know what it is. Can you give me an outline of the process? And then I'll trust it. 

Alex Cullimore: Oh, God it's like all of the disciplines. And there is the Logical knowing. You can understand like why this might be helpful. You can understand that if you can let go and learn to trust, that you've put together a good plan. You're following your intuition. You'll have roadblocks. You know that's going to happen. There will be adjustments to the plan. But the process is the overall trajectory that you're on and trusting that you can be on a positive one as long as you're making diligent steps and you're following some of that intuition and some of that awareness, acceptance. Making those continual conscious choices. 

It's another discipline where you can know logically like, "Yeah, it would help to be able to let go in the process, in the middle of this." And not feel like every outcome that doesn't go exactly how we thought is an indictment of our plan. And maybe we're off-base. You can see logically why it would be helpful. But it's again one where. Until you've felt it, until you've noticed it and it's still hard the next time it's going to come up, you don't know it. You're not going to know it at an emotional level until you really connect to the dots for yourself and notice like, "Oh, right. If I do let go, I will find this next thing." Or, "Man, this just feels like a huge setback. But if I can trust the process and look for the opportunities here, what can I do about this? What am I going to do next?" 

Until you've experienced that, you don't really know what trusting the process is. That's why in the middle of and the latter half of training, at some point you're like, "Yeah, I get it. So many of these things felt true. I've understood them for myself. Then you get to trust the process over and over." And by the second half of the whole training you're like, "Okay, I trust the process. All right. I trust it. Fine. What's next?"

Cristina Amigoni: It's definitely a difficult one. And for everything that you just explained. It's because, logically, you understand it. The mind catches up on – yes. That's what needs to happen. But the heart takes a long time to get there. At least my heart took a long time to actually get there. 

And especially – I don't know. I think of starting a whole new business. There are a lot of having to convince myself to trust the process because it was very unclear. It was unclear when are we going to get clients. What are the clients going to want? Are we going to be successful? What if we're not? Are we going to like what we're doing? And it almost goes against any business development plan. Because having to commit – not having to commit, but trying to get so specific on where you see your one-year plan or your four-year plan to go, it's almost the opposite of trusting the process. 

It's like good to have goals and it's good to have ambitions. And it's good to get on the same page especially when you're working with business partners and you're not on your own. So that you can make sure that you're not moving in different directions or wishing for different things. And at the same time, you have to trust the process. 

I would say when we look at our one-year or two-year plan that we wrote down in 2021, we didn't quite get to what it was written two years later. We got to probably a better place and a different place. We matched some of the bigger ideas, but we did the details. Like, "Nope. That did not happen. That did not happen. That, I no longer want to happen." And it's okay. You have to let go. It's a very difficult thing to do when your logic is trying to overwhelm the actual feeling.

Alex Cullimore: Sometimes I think of it like a stock ticker. I think there's going to be a lot of ups and downs. But if you're in the right investment, generally the trend would be positive. You're trying to make a choice and make a plan and make a general vision and direction that you can live with and then try and calm the logical portion of your brain that'll start screaming every time it ticks down. Every time it bumps down and it feels like, "Oh, God. What's next? Oh, God. What's next? Oh, God." Which is all normal. It's all-natural to feel that twinge. 

And that's the thing about even as you learn to trust the process, it's still hard the next time it comes around. You'll be like, "Okay. Okay. I'm going to let go of this. I'm going to like not overwhelm myself." And you survive that. You're like, "Oh, thank goodness." And then the next doubt will come up. The next left turn will happen and you'll be like, "Oh, God. Oh, God. What's –" and then you have to let go again. Trust the process again. And it's a continual – that's why these are all disciplines. They're all practices to continue to come back to it. 

Well, there's a couple different quotes that kind of come to mind. There's the Winston Churchill one. I think it's Winston Churchill. Attributed to him anyway. Where it's that a plan is useless, but planning is indispensable.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. 

Alex Cullimore: The actual plan itself is never going to go exactly as you plan it. But having done the planning, you'll be ready to kind of take some of those. And that will be really valuable to have done. There's some other one that totally I have now lost. It really is back to that mastery mindset of how do you kind of trust that you've set a good trajectory? And how do you – oh, yeah. That was the one. It's the Buddhist idea of like if you worry, you suffer twice. 

You can worry about things ahead of time. It may or may not come to fruition. Trusting the process, you might be able to, if you can get into that space, let go of that initial worry and not – or I think it's called like the second arrow or something. It's the pain you feel on the anticipation of the pain. And that pain may never come. So, you've just given yourself a self-inflicted pain along the way. trusting the process is a good way to kind of let go of that first one. And it's not to say that things won't go sideways on you occasionally. They of course will. It's life. But you can still survive and give yourself some of that grace and leeway and not hit that first hit. Just only hit the ones that you need to hit.

Cristina Amigoni: There's tons of examples like that where trusting the process becomes a little more less of a sentence, less of a logical and more of a feeling. And it really comes down to, at least for me, what can I control in this situation? And what's outside of my control? And being very aware and accepting of those things. And sometimes knowing that trusting the process is the most difficult and the most important to do when you are surrounded by fog because of the level of uncertainty is beyond what's usually tolerable. There's a lot more unknown. And so, in that fog, talking about quotes, I think of the quote that says look around and all you see is darkness. Look closer because you may be the light.

Alex Cullimore: That's a good one.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. And so, that's trusting the process. It's like it's darkness around you. But that doesn't mean that it's over. It doesn't mean you're lost. You just got to look inside and look at what are my values. What do I want things to be? Where do I want to go? What are the things that you really want to attach to? Values, mission, vision. And then like go of how you're going to get there. Because it's never going to work. You can start making a plan on how you would like to get there. But then every step of the way, let go that that may not be how it turns out. Because it won't be. 

Alex Cullimore: Inevitably, it will go sideways on you.

Cristina Amigoni: And then, also, I think the focus on the journey. Trusting the process is really about the journey and looking at the journey as your success outcome. Not the destination. If you can look at the journey, it's easier to recall things in the past and look at life and figuring out like, "Oh, I trusted the process." 

I think when I moved to New York City where I just woke up one morning, it's like, "I want to move to New York." And I remember feeling in the darkness and in the fog the whole time while I was trying to figure out how do I move to New York. Where do I live? What do I do? Where do I work? How do I make an income? And then that took whatever months, weeks it took. And then, all of a sudden, the memories to like, "Oh, I lived in New York and I had a job. And it all worked out." But the trusting the process was that journey of just making one decision. And then after that one, making the next one. And after that one, making the next one. 

Alex Cullimore: First of all. Absolutely about the journey. That's a good way of looking at it. Because if you think about it too, especially in like a mastery mindset, you want to grow into some kind of vision. And ideally, this is kind of some infinite game thinking. The vision should be unreachable. It should be something that you can always strive towards and always be moving towards. And you want to move the needle on. But it's not something that has an end result. And often, we're kind of told we should be goal-oriented. We should have a focus. And it's not bad to have those. Those can be stepping stones along the way. But if you don't have the vision of why you want that goal and what that's going to help you build even beyond that or who what that says about who you want to be and how you want to interact with the world, then it's just a goal. And it can be then incredibly deflating. Even if we do get to that goal, either it'll be deflating if we can't get to it or it'll be potentially deflating if we do get to it and we're like, "Oh, wait. What's next? What am I doing? I've spent all of my effort getting to here. And now it's over." 

I worry about that sometimes with like Olympians. They spend their entire lives training. And then most athletes are, to be generous, up to like what? 27-years-old? Maybe 30? There's a lot of life to live after that. You've lived your entire life focused on a singular goal that can be achieved. And then over, what happens after that? Who do you want to be? And how does that play out afterwards? 

And to that point, if you want to get into the journey, I think it goes to the first three disciplines again. Because you can go back to really accepting when it feels you're especially in the fog. Like your New York example. I want to move to New York. I don't know how that's going to look like. What jobs would I have? What am I going to do here? All that's unknown. You go back into your values and center on what's the choice I can make right now. Yeah, it's unknown. Yes, I don't know what to do here. But how do I want to show up and how do I want to try this? And what would I want to try first? And what's worth sticking out for? And when would I want to pull back and change course and when would I not? And those are all the disciplines of things like conscious choice and acceptance of what's really happening. Acceptance of the uncertainty. All of those help build into trusting the process once you get to it.

Cristina Amigoni: Thinking back, I could come up with a million examples of fighting the trusting the process and then finally letting go and then things worked out exactly as they were supposed to work out. 

Alex Cullimore: That is so often the case in life. People talk about that when they're trying to like meet somebody. They want to like – they're trying to look for like a life partner or something. And then the second they stop trying and they're like, "No. I just need to." Then suddenly it happens. Or same with like jobs. Same with a lot of people who were like trying to become parents. I've heard that story many, many times. There's so much pressure and effort. But honestly, on that one specifically, half of that is probably because there's so much pressure and that stress is such a difficult portion. 

And once you can let go of that, suddenly it happen out of nowhere. And so, there are many examples like that that you can see anecdotally. And once you can start to notice those in your own life, it sometimes becomes easier to trust the process as well. Because you remember, "Oh, there were other experiences where this was unknown and then I let go. And then things worked out."

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. They did. Even when they don't work out the way you wanted them to, which goes back to letting go. Know your higher calling, your higher destination, but not precisely how it's going to go. Because it's not going to go that way. And that could be a huge disappointment. And it's going to be very hard to accept when things don't work out the way you intended them to. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. That's very true. And we all know it's not going to work out exactly as intended. And even though we logically know that, we either throw the towel in on planning entirely sometimes or just get frustrated when it doesn't go according to plan even though we know it won't. 

Cristina Amigoni: Definitely won't. All right. Should we coach? 

Alex Cullimore: Yes. Let's do some coaching.

Cristina Amigoni: Okay. 

Alex Cullimore: You're excited. And then it dropped immediately. 

Cristina Amigoni: The million-dollar question. Who coaches first? 

Alex Cullimore: Back to this one.

Cristina Amigoni: I think I chose the last two times. It's your turn. I'm trusting the process and letting go of the choice.

Alex Cullimore: I'm going to accept that either way is the wrong answer here and just dive into what my first impulse is. I will coach first. 

Cristina Amigoni: Good answer. 

Alex Cullimore: The one thing that we think about sometimes in terms of – and this is just some setup in terms of trusting the process, is that often we can feel like, "Oh, I'll be happy when I get there." And there's some ephemeral that's when I'm successful. That's when I have – I'll be happier when my business is stable. And we don't really have any parameters around that. We have this idea that there's a there that we have to get to. There's some kind of finish line. And then we can look around and be happy, or be fulfilled, or look at other parts of the life. We just have to get to there. We can really get some tunnel vision when we focus on that. 

Thinking of there in that sense, what do you believe is lacking in your life right now that will make a difference when you are there? Or what's something that you feel like you might be waiting to be there on? 

Cristina Amigoni: Damn it. I put that question in there and I'm stuck answering it. 

Alex Cullimore: Boiled again self. 

Cristina Amigoni: It's like the perfect question as a coach. Not as a client. What do I believe is lacking in my life right now that I'm willing to actually say out loud and to the public? 

Alex Cullimore: The two-layer question on a podcast coach. 

Cristina Amigoni: That's an interesting question. Because if I look at – I don't know that there's a whole lot. I'm sure there's some. I would say – oh, I have something that could be shared in public. That's the filter right now. I would say the there for me right now is especially having to finish an accounting call this morning with our accountant and then another call with an associate, with a partner after that one. The there is wanting to see our business have a bigger team and to get to a bigger impact. 

It's not just a numbers game. It's more about there's so many things we want to do and so many things that we can't – at least I can't wait to be doing or to have completed so we can move to the next idea. And a lot of the block or the slowing down right now is just the fact that it's two of us with a bunch of contractors, but we need a lot more people. 

And by a lot I don't mean 6,000. But even just a couple more, two, three, five, would really allow us to finish and accomplish all the things that are on the constant running list of like, "Well, we want to do this next, and this next, and this next. And be out there this way and have these types of conversations with clients and these relationships." 

Big one was when we talked to our friend, JC Quintana right before this call and how he had all these big ideas. And my first thought was we need more people. That's a there. And it's a there that's been there for a while from, I would say, the inception of the business. It's very close to that. And it also feels like it's definitely a challenge to trust the process because of those bigger goals and those annual where do you want to be in two years? And where do you want to be in five years? And then looking at those and thinking, "Oh, we didn't quite get there not the way we wanted. In different ways." And so, it's very much like, "Okay, I want to trust the process." And then the process is not fast enough. How can I speed up the process? 

Alex Cullimore: Oh, it makes sense. It is definitely a pressure to feel like, "Hey, there's a place." Especially when you get excited about things or something that you want to get to or something you want. If you were to get more specific on a few of those, what are some of the bigger items you feel like you want to get to that you're excited for? 

Cristina Amigoni: Well, I want us to have some online learning, which we've started, and we're continuing and we're taking the steps to do. I want us to – the biggest thing which we've been talking about and reflecting on for the last couple of years is to not be the ones that have to do as much. 

And so, getting out there and doing some doing, some execution, but also a lot of the things that are more in our working genius wheels where it's more strategy. It's more relationship-building. It's more looking at a big picture and then figuring out how we get there. Discerning what needs to be done. 

Now do I know that once we get there that's going to be what I'm satisfied with? Probably not. The chances are that the goal is going to keep moving. And yet, there are some things that we've been working on marketing, and website and things like that. And those are the dreams, the visions that I have that then I'm not – I have a hard time saying like, "Oh, maybe in three months we'll be there. In a month, we'll be there." Because of the constraint of just men hours, and distractions and everything else that needs to be done. And so, it's not, "Oh, let's launch the updated website next week." Well, like, "Well, not yet." And that not yet seems to be dragging quite a bit.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. We were just joking about that before this call even. We have had the plan to set all of our marketing in order for, I don't know, three months now. It has been top priority that keeps being bumped to number two random occurrences. Lucky occurrences. But random occurrences. We keep getting pushed – it keeps getting pushed down the pipeline. 

If you were to think about, that dynamic where we have that desire to put all that together. And we know that there's been distractions. There's been other things coming along. How can you apply a trusting the lens process? And what would that look like if you think about those two sometimes conflicting initiatives? 

Cristina Amigoni: I would say the first thing I need to – I'll figure out to change that need to to choose to. First I need to get it out loud. The first thing I need to do is let go of the timeline in my head. I get pretty impatient when I see something and I see – I have the vision and I know what it would be. And I want the vision to just be there. And I don't have the patience to go through the steps. 

And so, the choosing instead of needing to do that comes in. Because if I don't choose to let go of whatever timeline I have in my hand that things need to be happening by, I get stuck and I don't even take the steps. I don't trust the process to the point of figuring out what are the steps that I can take? 

Now I can't submitt a LinkedIn post this week saying check out our new website. Or I can't do all these other things. Like we've been creating all these great motion graphics, and other social media materials and other things that I feel like they're just sitting there and collecting dust. 

Because in my head, the steps is, "Well, we want a place for people to go to after they see that, that it actually makes sense and it's not a mess." And it has the information that we want to be out there. And so, it's this constant, "Okay. Well, not having the website ready now impacts all this other work. And yet, this other work needs to continue so that we take advantage of it and we don't get stuck with not having anything." And so, let's go back to doing the website. And then we get a phone call. And now we're distracted on contracts and proposals for a week. And then we get another phone call and we are distracted by these other things. 

And so, it's really hard to trust the process. Because the bottom line is, if we just had someone that was dedicated to doing that until it gets done, and yet it's the chicken and the egg. We actually have to do all these other things that are destracting us in order to get to a place where we have a full-time marketing or a full-time creator role. 

And even then, I'm sure there will be all sorts of other distractions where we will shift their priorities on. What I struggle with is how do I stop spinning? Because I can't get to the end and I get stuck on the first step. Because I want to be at the end instead of in the first step or the second step. I'm not sure if any of that made any sense.

Alex Cullimore: It absolutely makes sense. It sounds like one of the major things is the idea of some of the timeline. You're very strong on non-accountability. You want to get things done. You want to set out a plan. You're good at meeting those plans, especially we've seen that a thousand times with things like client work, which is there's a lot of deadlines. We'll figure out what we're going to do to hit those deadlines. It sounds like that it becomes more abstract then in the running of the business sense when that is a direct competing influence with just the amount of hours one can commit to something. And it turns out, you need money to hire a professional marketer apparently. You can't just scoop that off the streets. 

There's obviously kind of a chicken-and-egg situation going on. You've got some of that sounds like natural impulse to move towards like timelines and have things done in an order. Then you want to get this done. Because you see these steps in sequence and you can plan that. You can see how getting this done first would allow you to get to those next steps. But that's then coming into conflict with needing to do things that come along ad hoc. And none of these have been bad things to do. 

And I'm obviously editorializing here since I'll also get on those ones. Sometimes they can feel like maybe necessary distractions or they're just good distractions for that. Not to put too much of a value term on it. But it's not a time loss. But it does make sense that there would be then that pressure of like knowing that there's a timeline that could be followed. Knowing you want to get to this vision. Seeing the steps that would go there and not being able to make the first step. 

Let's talk a little bit about that timeline pressure. What do you think drives some of that feeling of needing the timeline met that you have that expectation or steps that you have laid out? 

Cristina Amigoni: Good question. I would say a big one is comparison. The pressure on the timeline in my head gets very heavy when I compare where I would like to be with where other people seem to be. And so, look at that great website, and the great messaging and the great – and we're not there yet. And so, then the distraction is like, "Oh, let's come up with ideas on what's going to help us get there." But then letting go of all the other things that are dependent and starting to look at the dependencies. 

A lot of it is also just the way I work and my mind works. For a vision to be a vision that I actually want to work on, I create images of movies in my head. And it's very hard for me to see the movie and know exactly what it looks like. But then, not knowing how long it's going to take to be there. Because I'm already there. Because I'm in the movie. I'm already there and I'm doing all the things that I get to do in that movie. 

And then when I stop and realize I can't do any of those because we don't have any of the script or any of the movie parts ready. We don't even have the actors. Then that's when it's easy for me to then look for the shiny objects and be like, "Well, I have the movie in my mind. In my mind, the movie is happening now. Not in the future. Can't get there. So, shiny object. Let's go follow that one." 

Alex Cullimore: That makes sense. If you know the future and both of us struggle with the tenacity work. If you know the future and you know there's the steps that have to get done to get there, it would be hard not to live just in that future. And that has also worked out fairly well for us knowing the future and actually managing to walk into it. 

First though, on the comparison note, I want to note one thing there. I know we've talked about Simon Sinek and Adam Grant a lot. And they have a great podcast where they talk about some of the relationship they had with each other before they really knew each other. 

And so, there's the idea that they throw out there of being – and I think Simon Sinek is the one who coined it. Being worthy rivals rather than being adversaries. Because they felt like they were kind of competition to each other in their space and how they would address things. But they both knew they had strengths and weaknesses the other one didn't. And so, if you think about reframing some of those ideas, comparison ideas with the idea of a worthy rival, how, if at all, does that change the feeling of comparison? 

Cristina Amigoni: It helps a lot. And for the most part, my feeling of comparison is under the guidelines of – under the lens of a worthy rival. Not a competitor. I rarely look at other companies, other people out there who may be in a similar space that we are or even not in a similar space that we are. But other situations, other organizations and people that I may feel there's a competition, an internal competition. Not necessarily an external one. 

I don't necessarily look at them as they are taking something away from me. It's not I need to be there first. Because otherwise, I will not get it. Whatever it is. I honestly don't know that I've ever felt that way in most of my career. In any job. I've never seen jobs as, "Oh, if that person gets promoted, it means I lose." It's never been a lose or win as much as, "Okay, just figure out do I actually want that promotion? Or do I not want the promotion?" That's a lot of the thinking be behind the worthy arrival switch from true competitors or enemies. 

It's because when it comes down to do I actually want what they have? Well, most of the times, no. Not the way that they have it and not the way they got it. Because that's not me. The comparison is mostly when I think about it from a competition point of view, and it's a competition with myself that gets a spotlight when I look at others. Because it's more like I want to be there. Not there as into doing it their way and how they do it and what they're doing. But I want to be at that stage. And they seem to be. And so, I get that timeline pressure of like, "Okay, can we get there? Can we get there? Can we get there? When are we going to get there?"

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. It sounds like seeing some of those then adds to the that we were talking about too of like, "Hey, if you see where other people are and it feels like it's somewhat similar to where you'd like to be, that's just added proof there is some reality to the idea and the movie that is presented." And then I imagine, given what you're talking about, that adds even more pressure to feel like you want to get that. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. It does indeed. And then when I look back at how things have worked out and I actually focus on the journey that had to either forcefully or willingly made me trust the process, I noticed that, first of all, the journey is completely different from what I had possibly imagined. I mean, part of the movie in my head, it's also the movie, they journey. Or some of it I've been able to let go of the close details. But also, even the destination, it looks nothing like I had imagined. Whatever move you had in my head, not at all how it turned out. 

With the core, the core was the same. The core feelings are the same. Actually, some of the core feelings are bigger, and better and more fulfilling than I could ever imagine. And so, there's a core feelings. Like it's the values that remain because of the choices made along the journey, and the vision and the mission. But it's almost as if we've fallen backwards into the vision and the mission. I know it's happened with us. 

I mean, we wrote down visions, and missions and core values at the beginning of Siamo's journey. And we tweak them and also realize they – especially the vision and the mission I don't think ever changed. That's where they were from the beginning. And to actually sit back and look at the journey and look at where we are as a destination and think like, "Oh, my God. We're actually living it. We're living the vision and the mission." 

And there was a lot of trusting the process. It was completely trusting the process. But it wasn't a conscious plan of like, "Well, the mission and the visions are going to be lived and we're going to realize them when they happen this exact way. That's the letting go. And that's the letting go that I am getting better at doing from a big – well, I'll take that back. I have plenty of other situations in my life when I'm not getting better at that. But in some situations in my life, I've gotten better at letting go a little bit of the details of wanting to know the details, and the timelines and the plan. And who's involved? And how they're involved? All the how. 

And in other situation, they go back to like the smaller pieces where I can't like go – the tactical pieces. Like getting our website on. Like, that should be on a plan. And I've been talking about putting it in a project plan for I think two months. And yes, the plan is going to change and there's going to be things. But it is possible to actually plan that. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. It's always what I find. We always laugh about that when we see people do agile that way. Agilist and like, "Oh, we'll do no planning. We'll just adjust as we go." You don't even know where you're heading. You're just adjusting at nothing. It makes sense. There could be a way to plan and then just adjust that as we go. 

All of that makes sense. And you even talked about how like, okay, there were times where we ended up trusting the process and it almost feels like we fell backwards into the vision. And there's been times where it feels like you end up at a place where the feelings and the impact feels bigger than we were even hoping for, which is great. That's an awesome experience. 

Knowing that as a previous experience and mapping that towards what you have going on now. How might you remind yourself to trust the process that currently feels occasionally like chaos? 

Cristina Amigoni: I would say make that plan. Stop talking about having a plan and actually having it. That's usually the biggest gift I give to myself after I procrastinate it on everything. Everything. It goes back to just write down the list. Stop trying to keep the list in your head and write it down. And then you know when to adjust. And it's also out there. Now it's almost like a manifestation to the universe. It's out there. 

And so, my tendency is always to shortcut that piece. It's like, "Well, if it's in my head, that's good enough." Like, no. It's never good enough if it's in my head. Because it's noise. But if it's out there, then I can actually release of the pressure of like I want this down tomorrow or I want this down next week in much easier release. 

I've done it. I mean, moving across the ocean, across country has always been the same process where, when I make the decision of I want to move to New York, well, that means I want to be in New York tomorrow morning. Not in six months having to figure everything else out. And the first step, for me it's usually to actually say it out loud. To start telling people, "I'm moving to New York." "When?" "I don't know yet. Figuring it out the next five six months. I want to be there by September." And that starts solidifying some of the things. 

I also find that that's when the universe really answers with solutions. New York is an an example, but I've had this for so many different examples. When I decided to move to New York, it was about – actually, I remember exactly when it was. I was in New York for New Year's Eve with my friend. I was visiting her. It was the 2019 going 2020. New Year's Eve. And I remember being there and feeling like this is where I want to be. And I lived in Italy at that point. I was very far away from this is where I want to be. Nothing. Figured out. But that was it. 

And so, I went back to Italy and I told my friend. And I told whoever. I was like, "I'm going to move to New York." And then I started looking at a specific timeline or what would be realistic. And the fact that I worked in Switzerland in the summers. And I was teaching English to adults. So, we were mainly on a scholastic schedule calendar, even though they were adults, because of the summer breaks. And so, with all that in mind, I was like, "Well, realistically speaking, September." 

And once I decided that and I decided like, "Oh, it doesn't have to be tomorrow. It doesn't have to be January 10th. And today is January 1st." Once I decided that, then it was really much easier to trust the process. Because I was like, "Okay, I've now decided when the deadline is. By September, I want to be in New York." And I'm pretty sure I went through it by going to Spain for a couple of weeks in there. But anyway, that's where the plan kind of goes sideways. And so, that was it. 

And so, then by the time I got to the beginning – the end of the spring and I still had no job, no place to live. None of the really big details that you may want to have figured out if you're about to move to New York across the ocean. But that was it. In my mind, the decision was made. And I was going to trust the process and figure it out. 

And so, then I talked to my aunt who lives on Long Island and she said like you can stay with me as long as you want until you find a place in the city. Place to live, done. And then I talked to – I shared with my students at that moment who were executives and senior-level people in a company in Italy. I told them like, "Hey, I'm going to have to say goodbye at the beginning of the summer because I'm going to move to New York." And then I started kind of prepping them for that change. It was a fairly big change for them after having me as their teacher for three years. 

Ane of the lessons we had planned, one of them was like, "Hey, I have a proposal for you since you're moving to New York. It's like we actually want to – been talking about opening an office in New York. How would you like to be the one that opens it?" And so, all of a sudden, I had a job. I had no idea what the job was going to be like. It turned out that didn't work out. Economy and different things. But I had a job. 

And so, then it was just a matter of like, "Now get a plane ticket." And then it became tactical. And move in. And then when I was there, I was living with my aunt. And my cousin had happen – total coincidence. This is where the universe really conspires once you like go. Because it was the same thing. I was living on Long Island. I wanted to live in the city. How do I let go so that I will just let it happen when it needs to happen? Not tomorrow. And my cousin happened to be there for three months. Some of sort of training and something with her company with a bunch of other people from Europe. And we're out having drinks with them. And one of them says, "Oh, I'm moving to New York. I don't have a place to live." And I said like, "I'm here and I'm looking for a place to live and a roommate." And we look at each other like we seem to be getting along enough for the last five minutes that we met each other. Want a room together and find an apartment? All those details just worked out. 

Alex Cullimore: Oh, that absolutely makes sense. And that goes back to actually what we heard from Sterling. He talks about the Raz, where there's like the part of your brain that is attuned to like listening for things. You get a car. And suddenly, everybody's driving that same brand of car even though that hasn't actually changed distribution on the road. The things we listen for. 

And I think this this is one of the things that works out so well when we start to voice the things that we want. Not only do we then end up tuning into opportunities. The more we voice that out loud, the more other people are also actually listening to those things and hearing for us is where we end up finding, "Hey, I know you want to move to New York. I happen to have this opportunity. Do you want to do that?" And it wouldn't have happened if they didn't know you wanted to move to New York. Saying that out loud becomes incredibly important. 

And all of these little things end up snowballing. Because you just start to be attuned to what are the grains that I can hold on to? And what's going to go build up into the thing that want? And it can move that way. And so, knowing that and mapping that on to the idea of getting kind of that plan out of your head. Where do you need to voice putting that plan down? 

Cristina Amigoni: Definitely on Asana. I think it's been voiced to many people. It's definitely there. And we are making progress. It's not a blank page. I think the next big step is just to actually create the project plan and figure out like what is realistic? Not what's in my head realistic. Or what's a wish? But what's realistic? And then start looking at it and work on it. 

I mean, I thought about working on it during the Thanksgiving break and then decided that I just didn't want to be in front of the laptop for four days. So, I didn't. And those things are okay as long as it's not a – because I didn't work and now I still have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing next. Because there's a million parts to this. Making that plan and just crossing the list off and changing the list when it's time to change it. But having something concrete out there that's not in my head. 

Alex Cullimore: And when do you want to do that by? 

Cristina Amigoni: Well, I was supposed to do it by November 15th. That didn't work. I will commit to doing it by November 30th. Not into December.

Alex Cullimore: And because it has happened three times to us, including this morning, what might you do if a wrench gets thrown in that and we end up in the proposal writing cycle again? Again, not a bad problem to have. Not saying this is a problem. 

Cristina Amigoni: No. Not a bad problem to have.

Alex Cullimore: Should that happen before November 30th, how can you give yourself some space and grace? 

Cristina Amigoni: I'll give myself until the end of the weekend. Then I am going to work the weekend to actually make it happen. Next week is not going to start without the plan.

Alex Cullimore: All right.

Cristina Amigoni: Mind you, it'll take me half an hour to do this. It's not a thing that should take me long. It's not a big commitment. It's just more about actually sitting down and doing it.

Alex Cullimore: What support can I offer for that? 

Cristina Amigoni: Well, you're going to have to read it and actually review it and edit it. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, I can do that.

Cristina Amigoni: And agree to the deadlines. And assign yourself on areas in there.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, all that is doable. Well, that's a good action plan and good moving forward. Anything else you would want to say before you close out you're round on the seat? 

Cristina Amigoni: No. But definitely glad the seat is switching. 

Alex Cullimore: I feel like you say that every time. This whole being coached. Public thing, huh? 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. 

Alex Cullimore: Too much fishbowl for you? 

Cristina Amigoni: All right. I'm actually going to throw the same question back at you. Because I did write it on purpose. 

Alex Cullimore: All right. Let's do it. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Let's see where we get there. What do you believe is lacking in your life now that will make a difference between being here and being there? What's a here and what's a there? 

Alex Cullimore: I feel like there are a couple things that come up to mind that are kind of like already in flight. One is working on the stuff that we were just talking about. It's actually more on the business portion. There's a lot that like is in development. 

And I go back and forth on like there's some enjoyment and some of the creation work there. And there's some – I really want to get to those next things that we can do and start to attach us as like partners to people and just kind of deliver things we already have while building other stuff that would give us the chance to have more opportunity for things like writing that book that we're continuing, which is in progress. 

Talked to new acquaintance last week and I'm definitely in the process of like – he told us some advice he got on writing that was like you can't connect all the dots until you have the dots. That has really freed up some mental space. Because I'm writing a lot of dots at this point. It'd ' be easier to kind of commit to that when there's some of that space and we have some of these other things figured out. Because it's not just going back and forth on knowing that we have to get this done, especially as we keep getting phone calls to go get more of these things done. 

Outside of that though, the things that really are making difference currently in life. Actually, it's a lot of the process of working on the other disciplines. And some of that, like some acceptance work and some conscious choice work. And then some other work in feeling like you can focus on and work on things like belonging. That's helpful. And that has been a process that has definitely taken a lot more shape. Trying to decide whether it's worth bringing up as a topic here. Because it's already kind of in flight. But I think it's already making a difference in how to show up. 

And I guess if I can map this into the future – is this meandering enough for you? You think I wander long? Let me walk my whole thought process out. Yeah. I haven't reached it. Thanks everybody for taking this long train.

Cristina Amigoni: They're walking some train of our own. 

Alex Cullimore: I think that attaching that, there's the next rounds of work that we're going to be doing both in the creation of this, in the creating in the partnerships. I need to be focused on having that acceptance and that confidence that I've been building in other areas. Feeling that working down any and working through any feelings of impostor syndrome that come up as we take on new stuff, I think that's probably the next thing that will never come up in different ways that I'm not expecting yet. 

I've built a lot of confidence in the things that we have done. And I'm not feeling like we're imposters in the space. We are in the space now that we've wanted to be in. And we're playing it I think to my mind a way that we want to be playing it. And so, getting that mindset more solidified is a huge part of like what will be "there". Getting to there would be having some of that set and ready. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. That was quite meandering. But we finally got – we got there. We got to a there. 

Alex Cullimore: Here's the nine things I'm thinking about right now. That's a view into my mind. Nobody wishes for that.

Cristina Amigoni: Well, interestingly enough, the thread that you started loop us back into. But the rest was necessary to highlight the thread. But the thread you started is the belonging. And so, what does belonging look like for you? 

Alex Cullimore: This has come out in a couple of different ways. There's feeling I have a space and a thought that's worth expressing like in meetings and stuff. Rather than just continually being in the more observer role. Being able to share when I have like an impulse to like there's something that be contributed here. Not shutting that down before I have a chance to just express it. That's a big one. That would be helpful. 

And things like in doing facilitation. There's a lot of sometimes I'll feel like I'm either like the younger person in the room or just newer to the game. And like that can be a breeding ground occasionally for some impostor syndrome, which has been very much worked down through a lot of this year. And I feel more like, yeah, this is a place I'm happy to live in, exist in and play out. Because I now see the tie-ins of like, "Oh, if I can feel like I can have some space here." And that's why I tie back to belonging. If I can feel like I have the space and the room to do this, I can perform a lot more comfortably and a lot more actively. It's made it both more enjoyable and more feasible. It's easier to do. 

Cristina Amigoni: Easier to do. And so, on a scale from 1 to 10, where one is I don't feel like I belong at all and it's all imposter. And 10 is I'm so comfortable on now a new discomfort zone to get into a new situation, where do you think your belonging sits right now? 

Alex Cullimore: Actually, it's moving currently in a lot of arenas. It's now in like a kind of seven, eight range. And that would have been like four, five range for a long time on a good day. It's definitely made some significant swings even recently.

Cristina Amigoni: What allowed it to swing? 

Alex Cullimore: At the risk of sounding cliche, I allowed it to be. I realized at some point that there was a time – over the summer, I hit a weird bump in my kind of like reasoning and mental processing of how things were going. And I realized that for a long time I kind of wanted to feel some of that belonging. And I realized in the middle of it like, yeah, it'd be great to like have people to reach out to. But for a long time I felt like I didn't have necessarily places to reach out too. I could only find a couple of relationships that I was relying on heavily for many things. And that's fine. It's not like I'm looking for a ton of those. But I wasn't also – I wasn't actually doing the work of reaching out and using any of those relationships. And so, that is what was standing in the way. There was the allowing myself the chance to belong, and to be vulnerable, and reach out and risk for lack of a better term. That was in the way.

Cristina Amigoni: That's really good awareness and acceptance of the situation and portion of how much you could control the situation you were in. It wasn't completely out of your control. Somehow, relationships don't just spring and happen on their own. 

Alex Cullimore: The even more surprising part was that I already had a bunch of relationships that were there. I just wasn't using them this way. I wasn't feeling comfortable enough and willing to let myself be comfortable enough to do that. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.

Alex Cullimore: I ended up with that as a difficulty.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. What have you gained by getting out of your own way?

Alex Cullimore: The biggest thing is I'm much more relaxed. I can access a lot more natural energy sources. I can feel more engaged in what I'm doing when I'm not constantly kind of worrying about not belonging, not being there, not being whatever. The comfort and the confidence has allowed me to work in a much more flow-like state. And so, it's a lot easier to just exist and grow whatever we want to grow. Do more of what we want to do. Because we can. We know how. I think that has been a huge difference and a huge difference maker. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, indeed. It makes sense. You said that you would probably put yourself on a 7, 8 scale of belonging. Where would you like to be? 

Alex Cullimore: I'd like to, I guess, get to 10. I don't know that it is as necessary, but I think there's just so much more ground to explore here that I haven't yet explored. Because I'm fairly new into this and working in a different mindset. And it's been incredibly productive and helpful and it's just helped me like feel attached to what I'm doing to the relationships that I have and to feel invested in them and to feel like I have a place in them. And so, I'd like to, I guess, get to a ten and explore what else is possible. 

Cristina Amigoni: What does 10 look like? 

Alex Cullimore: Ideally, there's what feels like an unrealistic panacea of like just living in authenticity in relationships and not feeling that concerned or that worry over belonging. And I think the reason I hesitate on that, I'm not actually – I wouldn't be that upset if there are the occasional doubts. Nor would I would be surprised if there are the occasional doubts or moments where there's just like a push through that. And I don't think that necessarily has to take away from being at a 10. I think it's okay to have those moments and just, again, I guess back to trusting the process. Maybe that's why that's on my mind. There can and will be bumps in that. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's not a 10. I think it's just even more levels of comfort and letting go of needing to. I think a 10 to me looks more like feeling more confident in that without explicit confirmation. 

We've been lucky. And it only happened after I was already finding some acceptance in this for myself, which goes back to trusting the process as well. The second I started to let go, this was more present. We've been lucky that in the last even just month or so we've had a lot of good validation that the space that we were creating and the help that we're providing has been received well and appreciated. And they're seeing the value of it. And they want to do more with it, the clients that we've had. 

And honestly, friendships and relationships like we had at the retreat. We've seen that there are – we've been explicitly externally validated on this. I guess the 10 really looks like not just needing that external validation, but feeling that more internally first. And I've already kind of started on that. And I think that's one of the things that almost allowed for the external validation to start coming in. 

Cristina Amigoni: Like, oh, if I believe in it, then the rest of the world will just align. And it starts internally too. Well, interestingly enough, as you described the 10, it's almost that jumping point to get to the next. It's not needing the external validation to know that deep inside what you're doing and how you're showing up is valuable. That gives you the confidence to like get into a different space. Tweak it. See what else is possible. What would help you get to a 10? 

Alex Cullimore: I almost feel like I use this too much. Journaling helps a lot to remind myself of times when I have been in this space and to reflect on the journey that has been particularly engaged in the last few months. Rachel and I were just talking about how this has been overly unexpectedly busy month basically since October 20th or so, I think, which was right before our retreat. We went to a wedding, which was great. We went to the retreat right after that. And that just went immediately into a whole bunch of things. We had more travel. Rachel had travel. We've had foster kittens. It's just been an onslaught of things for the last month. 

And so, I haven't even really taken time to sit down and digest the way that I would like to even all the stuff that we got to do at the retreat. I think that would probably be a great place to start. And then there's other areas that I've been leaning on and reaching out in relationships. And so, I guess leaning more into that would be actively choosing to get to that. 

And so, by actively choosing, I mostly mean making the space and commitment to doing that. So many mornings where I'm trying to do things like now that I've also signed up to do. Run a triathlon. That's taking up time. I don't have as much time to – if I don't have a full set of hours, and I usually don't anymore these mornings, I could potentially have done like some working out and some reflection work. 

And now it's one or the other thing. But I'm doing a lot of like let's make sure all of these current fosters are fed, which they'll be out after this week. We only have like a couple days left for some of them and then another week for the next set. And so, there'll be more room there. I think that will help. But it is a matter of like just committing to that or finding the time to do that. If I don't do that in the mornings, which is usually the kind of productive time for that kind of work, then – 

Cristina Amigoni: What do you do after that if you don't make time in the morning? 

Alex Cullimore: Well, what actually happens usually is that I get into the day, we get random phone calls that add to some our to-do list. We change our schedule and needs. And then it's fielding those things until the mid to late afternoon. And then it's dinner and trying to figure out evening stuff. And so, what actually happens is that. That usually just steps in the way and then gets everywhere. 

I would like, I guess, to have happen is to figure out how to hold some space in the afternoons or just to keep it open. If I don't have it in the morning, then I need to set it aside immediately before starting work. Because usually, I'll just dive in, put full energy into work. And then by the time I hit that afternoon I'm like, "I don't have space to do this anymore." It would have to be having that carved out and committed to right after the morning goes awry, which is usually about 9am. 

Cristina Amigoni: And we're lucky. When would you like to start creating that space? When would you like that space created? 

Alex Cullimore: I think, realistically, it's going to be after this week. We have one set of very high-needs fosters that will return to the shelter on Friday. That's going to open a good amount of time. The other ones are just basically getting to this point that we have to have them gain enough weight that they'll be good to go for neutering and spaying. Probably starting Saturday.

Cristina Amigoni: Okay. Starting Saturday. And what would help you start on Saturday? 

Alex Cullimore: I'm going to need some time to clear my head to get ready for that. And I've already felt it start to move. Thanksgiving was a big thing to kind of get ready for. And we finally took a couple days to kind of crash after Thanksgiving and do some just purposely doing nothing for a little bit, which has helped free up some space. 

And so, now doing – now that I've had some just clearing of head space, it's setting aside some time to just free-form journal. I need like probably two hours between here and Saturday that I need to put on a calendar somewhere to just get a lot of thoughts out to not have the mental clutter. 

For the first time, it doesn't feel like mental clutter in a bad way. I can just feel that it's distracting from being able to organize the many, many things that we have balls we have in the air currently. It's not feeling like overwhelmed. It's not feeling like clutter that I've had before where it feels like now it's hazy. I don't know what to do next. But it is enough clutter that it's preventing clarity on being able to take next steps. I think to get to this, to successfully start to plan this, I'm just going to have to set aside some time and brain dump. 

Cristina Amigoni: All right. We have five day-ish between now and Saturday. What specific time? 

Alex Cullimore: Let me see. Well, we're going to be traveling for one of these days. That'll take that time. It might actually be DuValle and then I'm going to be leaving pretty early that morning. 

Well, here's an interesting one. If I pack up everything Tuesday night, which usually I would do anyway, then I would have plenty of free time just to like – I'll have to leave my house by like nine or so in the morning when we're going flying out. But I would have between seven and nine to just do some brain dump. It doesn't need to be anything else. We're already set up for the next trip and that can just be work that we would do together and we can do together in the travel. That's fine. Maybe that's the day that will be available to just between like seven and nine, which is usually the hours in which I would do something like this to have that. I'm going to put that in my calendar right now. Saved. 

Cristina Amigoni: What's a backup plan if that doesn't work? Or there's a curveball? 

Alex Cullimore: The backup plan realistically would be probably Thursday night. Because I'm going to get home and then we're going to get home at like five. I'm not going to have mental energy to do more work at that point, but I would have time as Rachel's going to be at a rehearsal that night.. I'm going to have a couple hours of just quiet time in the house. That would be the fallback. And failing that Friday morning. 

Cristina Amigoni: All right. All right. A couple of options there. What kind of support would you need? 

Alex Cullimore: Now I just needed to say all this out loud. As you can tell by all the like endlessly meandering crisscross answers that I've given here to every single question, I need that mental space. This is what I mean by the clutter. This is what it sounds like in my head. I just want to have that space. I don't know how I – 

Cristina Amigoni: Your 15 washing machines.

Alex Cullimore: I'm really excited. Honestly, I feel really lucky for where we are at. I feel a lot of gratitude for the things that – the opportunities that we have, that we have had that we continue to see. But hopefully, come to fruition, some of them will work, some of them won't. It'll all be all kinds of different things coming up. But I'm really excited about what we have done. What we can do. And it's a really good place to be. And I'd like to capitalize on that, which means I do need to take care of mental health and prioritize mental health along the way here.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Y eah. And it is a big trust the process moment as well. 

Alex Cullimore: Yes. 

Cristina Amigoni: So, let's stop with the big trust the process. It's like we've climbed the mountain and now we're like, "Okay, where's the next mountain. And where's the path?" Somebody point me to the path. And I said, it's just take the first step. The path will appear. 

Alex Cullimore: Yes. Oh, my God. Is it trust the process? 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Make trust the process. 

Alex Cullimore: This is the other thing that I don't want to fall into. We've been very fortunate. And trusting the process has worked out really well. I don't want to fall into relying on that and not doing some of the planning and steps. And I feel like I'm on the precipice of if I let this clutter go on and if I don't clear this out and start to get more diligent with this, I'm going to get into the unhealthy trust the process where I'm using that as an excuse not to do the work. Not to set down to do this. That is part of the process. I know, actually sitting down to do that. 

Cristina Amigoni: I can't relate to that at all. I cannot relate to that at all. Okay. Well, good. Sounds like we both have things to do.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. And unsurprisingly, they around the same place. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Well, everybody, good luck with trusting the process out there. It's vital and so difficult. 

Alex Cullimore: It's vital. It's difficult. It's painful. It's powerful. All the things you want it to be. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Exactly. And next time, we'll walk into authenticity.

Alex Cullimore: Yes.

Cristina Amigoni: Thanks for listening.

Alex Cullimore: Thank you for listening.

[OUTRO]

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you for listening to Uncover the Human, a Siamo podcast. 

Alex Cullimore: Special thanks to our podcast operations wizard, Jake Lara; and our score creator, Rachel Sherwood. 

Cristina Amigoni: If you have enjoyed this episode, please share, review, and subscribe. You can find our episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. 

Alex Cullimore: We would love to hear from you with feedback, topic ideas, or questions. You can reach us at podcast@wearesiamo.com, or at our website, wearesiamo.com, LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook. We Are Siamo is spelled W-E A-R-E S-I-A-M-O.

Cristina Amigoni: Until next time, listen to yourself, listen to others, and always uncover the human.

[END]