Connecting with Values
This week we take on our favorite subject: values. Values can be incredible guideposts for living a more fulfilled and authentic life, and in this episode we delve into the mystery behind them. What are they? How do we find them? What happens when we live by them or find ourselves entirely out of alignment, and how do we get back on track? Episode Notes can be found here at uncoverthehuman.wearesiamo.com
Credits: Raechel Sherwood for Original Score Composition.
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Cristina Amigoni:
Welcome back to Uncover The Human. Today we talk about values. And when Alex actually wrote down, how do you find your values? My answer was at the end of the rainbow. And it's a joke, but not really, you find your values at the end of the rainbow. And once you found them once, you'll just keep searching until you find them again. So tune in.
Alex Cullimore:
Welcome to Uncover the Human where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives,
Cristina Amigoni:
whether that's with our families, co-workers, or even ourselves.
Alex Cullimore:
When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.
Cristina Amigoni:
This is Cristina Amigoni.
Alex Cullimore:
This is Alex Cullimore.
Both:
Let's dive in.
Guests:
Authenticity means freedom. Authenticity means going with your gut. Authenticity is bringing 100% of yourself, not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you. Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself. It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep rooted and true. Authenticity is when you truly know yourself, you remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be. It's transparency relatability, no frills, no makeup, just being.
Alex Cullimore:
Hello, and welcome back to Uncover The Human for another week. This week, we are discussing values and how values play a role in our lives personally in our workplace, how it guides how we interact with the world, our general energy levels. Cristina, you wanted to talk about values, because you actually just recently had a conversation about values do you want to expand a little bit on that?
Cristina Amigoni:
Would love to, welcome back everybody. And it does sound like all these topics come up from conversations I have with other people. So maybe we can be more creative in the future. And maybe not. Maybe this is how it should work. But yes, I have recently had a conversation with a college student who's graduating probably in the next year or so. And she reached out to me because she wanted to find out more about the consulting industry. She has an internship coming up in the next summer with consulting and she just wanted to understand what life as a consultant is like, what the industry is like in the Denver Metro area. She was given my number to talk to me about it, given my extensive consulting career, some sarcasm in there, but I guess that's how it's seen. And it was very unexpected, in a positive way, conversation, because the questions she asked weren't technical in a way. They weren't about "what are the industries? What are the big players? What's a typical career path of a consultant? How many years does it take to become manager? What happens after tha?" Which I expected, it was much more about the human experience. And one of the first thing she told me was that by going through my LinkedIn profile, she noticed how I had focused and I seemed very into values, which I was flattered and surprised that it comes out of my LinkedIn profile. And so she asked me, "How do you find your values? Why are those important?"
Alex Cullimore:
That's a fascinating viewpoint, and one that feels, and I'm definitely projecting here. feels a little bit more mature than most people I knew at that age. And by projecting I mean, I was not that mature at that age, I was not considering things in the values context, I was thinking of much more like the mechanics of it, I didn't know enough about the mechanics of the business world, of the consulting world. And so when I was jumping into that, I definitely felt like I had to learn those ropes. And I probably would have immediately asked exactly those questions you were talking about up front of "What is this like? How long does it take to progress? What does it mean to be a consultant? Much more than what has become more important as you go into a career, which is understanding your own values and how that works or doesn't work for you?
Cristina Amigoni:
It's funny, cuz you say that, and I'm the same way. I think back of being a junior or senior in college, I definitely was not thinking about my values. I wasn't even thinking about consulting because I didn't even know what consulting was. I was barely thinking about getting a job after college. So way behind.
Alex Cullimore:
Me too. I walked into a career fair and walked out with an interview with a consulting firm. I had no idea what I was doing.
Cristina Amigoni:
I just went back home and I was like "Oh, I need a job. Anyone>" I have no idea what I want to do. So it was very impressive, because I actually didn't know that she was still a college student until after the interview, or towards the end when she told me it was going to be an internship that she was getting into, because just the type of questions that she asked and the conversation, and what she wanted to find out from me was so way beyond what I would have imagined when I was 20 or 21.
Alex Cullimore:
I wonder if first of all, obviously, it sounds like she was very well spoken and she's very able to kind of comport herself that way and make it a surprise when you find out later that she's only college aged, just happens to be college aged. I guess the hopeful part of me wants to say that maybe in LinkedIn you might see more conversation about values nowadays, you may see more interpretations of what does it mean to work for a company that that works with your values? And how do you interpret that I think that's a little bit more common of a conversation. So the hopeful part of me would like to say that not only is maybe she is already more mature, but also that maybe the conversation has matured to the point where that is more of the discussion happening, even when you haven't joined into the workforce yet, or you're not on LinkedIn, or maybe that is more of the conversation, I would like to hope that the world is moving towards that being that something you're taught earlier on.
Cristina Amigoni:
Yes. And even if you're not taught formally, the fact that it's becoming something that you want to talk about and hear about and understand, it's definitely hopeful, it does seem that we are moving away from a job, it's just a job for the paycheck. And when you're that young, just put your head down, do what you're told, shut your mouth, you're gaining skills, and no matter what, which I don't want to say I'm completely against that, because there is an element of experience, however time is limited. And the sooner you start focusing on certain things, which is kind of how I answered the questions "just start paying attention, paying attention to what energizes you versus drains your energy. Pay attention when you wake up in the morning, and you can't wait to start work, and you're super excited. And then when it comes to the evening and the sun sets, you have no idea how time flew, versus the days where you just dread waking up in the morning, and you wish it was a either a national holiday, or you call in sick, or go skiing or something, or the internet went out. So start paying attention to that. And we all have good days and bad days. The question is, when you start having more bad than good, then that's when something is off.
Alex Cullimore:
I like the idea of tying that directly to your energy levels. I remember the Steve Jobs gave a famous commencement speech where he talked about how he would wake up and ask himself, if I happen to die today, would I be happy doing what I'm doing? And when the answer was no, for too many days in a row, he'd know he needed to change something. And I like the idea of focusing on how you feel about it. Because it's it stops us from trying to jump into personality tests or trying to jump into assessments, and then defining values, and then trying to understand that interpretation in the world, it comes at it from the other direction, which is what feels right to me, what makes sense, and then starting to put the vocabulary around why that feels correct. Why I'm excited to get out of bed, maybe I do really like working in a group or maybe just this group, or maybe there's some certain aspects of this group or work that I like. And if you try and understand values from words that you then put meaning to, versus finding meaning and energy that you then put words to, I think it's a totally different process, I think it's much more natural and much more comprehensive. If you start with the feelings.
Cristina Amigoni:
That's a great way to put it. And it reminds me of a lot of the exercises on finding and defining our values that whether it's through coaching, or through exercises out there from the Dare to Lead as well program and book from Brene' Brown and other ways where the first questions are not what are your values, go to the list and find them? The first questions are about when are you at your best? Start talking about that, bring examples that was part of Simon Sinek's Finding Your Why course as well, it's like, you don't reach your Why bt just putting it in sentence at the beginning, you get to the end of the program. After you've answered all the questions of "When were you most happy? When did you have most energy? When did people respond best to you? What are your best memories? When did you struggle?" And then you start extracting the information from those.
Alex Cullimore:
And in that way, that's one of those areas where experience I think started to play and you were talking about how there's an element of experience in this. And I think that's true, because you have to go experience things that are both good and bad. Because it starts to define those parameters for you. And you have more framework to look back on and say, well, that one really worked out for me and what was similar with between that and other things that worked out well or things that didn't work out, what started to drain some energy, what were some similarities, then you start to get more examples, you've got your own personal evidence. And it is very much a personal thing, you can feel similar to a lot of people out there, but it's never going to be an exact fit. And it's better to start to define those for yourself. Understand the people that you might be like and see things that they might also like, but know that it's not bad when you have maybe a 90% match, but those 10% just feel different to you.
Cristina Amigoni:
It's very true, the especially the difference, you don't have to have 100% match. The question is, "is that 10% your top values or the 10% are the would be nice to have. But my core ones seem to be there, in this company, in this team, in this relationship.
Alex Cullimore:
That's another good point: priorities in values, which ones are most important to you, and which ones are. "This really helps energize, but if I don't have the two or three ahead of it, I'm not going to feel that energized anyway." It's good to understand that there can be a
Cristina Amigoni:
And the hierarchy changes depending on hierarchy. situation and it changes with time, it changes with experience. Before you have a family, family may not be in your top values yet, after you have a family that switches, maybe that goes away again, even as you do have a family. It just depends. It depends on what's going on in life right now, it depends on the situation you're in. And so being flexible with that is also good. I remember one of the most recent values exercises I've done with one of my coach, friends Lauren, who is going to be one of our guests soon. She and I did a value exercise for each other. So we coached each other on values. And we found that we couldn't define values with one word. So we couldn't even come up with our top three, because we wanted to put so many in one category that we started creating umbrellas. For example, if trust is one of my top values, then trust means well, there has to be honesty, and there has to be integrity, and there has to be clear communication, and there has to be courage in order for trust to exist.
Alex Cullimore:
I like that, because that is kind of what we were talking about before, the feeling is then supported by the words that you're finding. And rarely, that's why I find it so hard to go through. Like you were saying, here's a list of values, pick your top three, and then use those in the future. That doesn't work as much for me as thinking about what ends up being valuable. And then filling in that paragraph essentially of why that's important than the other things that ties to.
Cristina Amigoni:
Yes, and one of the things that I've also found very useful that I've done as a client, and as a coach as well is now that you've defined your value, so you come up with your top 10 list, top three lists, top five, whatever it is, then let's actually look at how you live by them. So it's not enough to say honesty is my top value. The next step is "how often from a scale from one to 10 do I feel that I actually live in to that value? How often do I put it in action?" Because I can see all day long, but if I'm actually going around lying and hiding information, then well, maybe I need to switch values and say it's not my value, or switch behavior, one of the two change.
Alex Cullimore:
Have you ever met one of those people who just say things like, "well, I'm the most honest person you'll ever meet." And you're like, well, that, by itself has ruled out that possibility that you even say that is not helpful. That's where I think there can be some misalignment both in people and in companies. Companies can say, this is our value, and then you get in there and you're like, that's not a value. None of that is lived here.
Cristina Amigoni:
Yeah, it's funny, because that's one of the things that I've also given as advice. One of the last questions that she asked was, "what advice do you give me?" And I said "well pay attention to daily stuff." So when you're looking at one of the biggest conflicts that you can look into is if you have certain top values that you want to live by, and you work for a company that doesn't, that's eventually not going to work out, it may work out for a while, but eventually, that's going to cause major internal conflicts of how you produce and how you show up. And but also don't stop at the posters. Just because the posters say that the values are the same as yours or similar, look at daily behavior, not the big events, not the, you know, monthly all hands or the once a year awards, or whatever it is, look at the daily behavior in every meeting and every interaction with you and other people to see whether the values on the wall are just pretty pictures or they're just there because that's what people want to see.
Alex Cullimore:
You've mentioned a couple times that you've found some of these through coaching and that sometimes you recommend coaches to help find values. Can you talk a little bit about how you've used coaching how you see coaching fitting into that?
Cristina Amigoni:
Yes, definitely. One of the things that I have actually discovered going through the coaching training program and then becoming a coach and then trying to define my niche, which I never did, but I guess I could figure it out, is that values is really where I always look back to whenever there's conflict when somebody's struggling, or they don't know what the answer their internal voice is telling, their higher self is telling them when they don't know how to make a decision. I always go back to values and figure out what what are the values and a lot of us coaches do that. But for me, it's at the point where that's where the conflict starts. And that's where it's just going to completely impact how you show up what actions you make, what results you get, and how you treat other people. So the sooner you figure it out, these are my top three, top five, whatever they are values, and they're non negotiable, the sooner you can stop swimming upstream, and start going with the flow. And you and I have talked about this going with the flow doesn't mean just relaxing with your arms behind your neck and floating down the river and that's it, you are not making the effort, it's still effort, it's just effort to not bang your head against the rocks on the side of the rivers and staying afloat. But it's different from the effort of swimming upstream.
Alex Cullimore:
Yeah, I think it's also different. And that metaphor works perfectly, because if you're swimming upstream, you will not be making progress nearly so quickly. But you're gonna feel like you work and you work and you work and you spend a lot of effort and you're starting to feel tired, and you're starting to feel burnt out, and you lift your head above the water, and you've gone, you know, 50 yards down the river, you've just been fighting the current the whole time. And you've expended the effort that could have launched you four miles down the river.
Cristina Amigoni:
Yes, exactly. So that's one of the things, once you realize what your values are. And for example, if connecting with people, having deep connections with people is one of your values. And, you know, clearly speaking from my own experience, because I know my values very clearly now, then you realize that if you get into a job or situation where you're supposed to be working alone, most of the times, that's eventually not gonna work, you may make it work for a while, and it may be temporary. But if that's what's being expected of you is just to go in a corner, shut your mouth and work on your own, you're not going to be able to produce the best, you're not going to be able to be your best self. And again, it's one of those things that you can do for a little bit. But eventually, it's just going to impact you to a point that you just can't, you can't go on. And you look at that question, the Steve Jobs question which I didn't know it what his question, it's a question that I asked myself every day is, if I were to die today, would I be happy with what I have done?
Alex Cullimore:
It's a great guiding question. It's one of those deep, consider your legacy. Consider what's on your tombstone? Consider what's in your eulogy moments. It's not that "man, I really do have to get to my 930 call on time today."
Cristina Amigoni:
Exactly. Well, and it's the question that reminds you that the only thing that we can't control is the fact that time passes. You know, we may have different theories on whether time is relative, it exists at all, its ourn own construct, which I do believe a lot of those as well, but we age, and well, we die. And so this notion of "well, in the next job, I'll do something that energizes me or in the next team I'll be valued and I'll be able to show up as myself or whatever it is, there is no guarantee. And it may be morbid, but it's true. There are no guarantees. So why waste time? Why swim upstream?
Alex Cullimore:
I had a physical cringe when you said that the next job will be better than next this will be better. And it's because I can, I just, I feel like I'm looking back at myself through the years at all the times that I've done that, and all the times where that has been the pervasive thought of like, "yes, this is not working for me, but you know, in the future, this will be different." And then you do nothing in the present to go change that, you're just, you're there. And then the next week, you're like, "God, this still just isn't working out. In the future on the next job, that'll be something different." And I just, I'm cringing thinking back at myself doing these things.
Cristina Amigoni:
When I love the fact that you brought it up, I have a physical reaction to that, because we do have physical reactions to that. Our body recognizes when our values and something that's deep core meaningful to us is being challenged way before our mind is allowed to. And so things like, lose sleep, so insomnia, that's it, for me at least. And for a lot of people, it's one of the first signals that something is wrong. And something needs to change in how I'm living my life and how I'm spending my time. Whether it's heartburn or digestive issues is another one, back pain, neck pains. So the body knows right away when you're in a situation that you should look into changing, as opposed to thinking that somehow it will magically resolve itself in the future job, future project, future, whatever.
Alex Cullimore:
And that's a label you hear but it sounds like your initial coaching tends to be values, I think, and I think that's a great nice to have. That one plays incredibly well. Honestly, it's been an absolute pleasure getting to talk to a lot of the coaches in your network and they all have some good ideas on niches and I really like where they're coming from, and I can't wait to explore some of those when they're guests on this, but the way they talk about those is very similar to the way you're talking about values now.
Cristina Amigoni:
It's funny you say that because I went through grieving coaching in the spring of 2019, with a coach who specialized in grieving and resolving grieving situation, and also who is an iPEC coach. And so when we got to the end of the of the program, she asked me, "What's your niche?" And I said, "I don't know, I haven't figured it out". And so then she asked me "well, how would you like to help people, what happens when you want to help them where do you go to. And so I start talking about values. And so she kind of concluded the same thing she's like, "that's your niche, you are a values coach."
Alex Cullimore:
That's honestly been some of the best conversations that you and I have had are when we get to explore those values with each other. I think we both like to respond to those values and people, but you've been very good at identifying those always leading with those. And you've gotten more explicit, even over the last couple of years of being very explicit with your own values and talking about when you feel like this works and doesn't work. And not only does that, I imagine, help you define that internally, but for me, and for anybody else who's around, I think it's easier than to connect with, I see what you're saying about that. It's the difference between seeing that poster and being like, oh, Cristina has honesty listed as a value and you're basically left with like, well, this is my interpretation of honesty. And it may in a Venn diagram of our two interpretations never actually meet. But when you actually expressed those, when you talk about how that interacts in your life, how you see that playing out, suddenly, our understanding can become shared, that Venn diagram can get a lot closer to just one circle, or it can just at least have a lot more common middle ground. And we'll understand each other's language on what it means for honesty to be at play.
Cristina Amigoni:
That's such a great point to actually understand the definition of values. So it's one thing to have similar values, or at least use the same words. But then understanding the definition behind that it's one of the things that I found conflicting, which it's a conflict that I've had to figure out what it means for my life is that one of my top values is integrity. And I define integrity a lot like Brene' Brown does, and other people where you walk the talk. So if you're gonna say you do something, you actually do it. And if you can't, you are honest about why you're not doing it. So there has to be consistency between actions and words. That's integrity for me. Also, I love how Brene' Brown defines that as in choosing courage, over comfort, choosing to do the hard things, not the easy things. That's integrity because showing integrity when things are going smoothly, well, that's easy. It's when things are not going smoothly, is when you have to have those hard conversations, which you and I have done an episode on, or when you have to break bad news or when you have to potentially go into a situation that's uncomfortable. That's when integrity shows up. If you avoid it, then you're not living with integrity in my mind. And so that's one of the things that I found. There are different definitions of integrity that don't include being completely honest and courageous and walking the talk. I honestly don't think that's integrity.
Alex Cullimore:
Yeah.
Cristina Amigoni:
It's not just a different interpretation. That's just not integrity.
Alex Cullimore:
Oh, yeah. Like you said, that doesn't involve honesty. I was like, what integrity is this? That's table stakes to me.
Cristina Amigoni:
I've been told that to accept certain situations, I should look at as they didn't live up to your definition of integrity. Well, no, that doesn't live up to anyone's definition of integrity. That's my own internal conflict there.
Alex Cullimore:
That does bring up the point we're talking about, which is we can have different interpretations of this, we're all coming at language from our own personal lens, from our own ability to focus and understand it. So it can be a little bit different. That one feels like at some point, you're bending the meaning of the word. But maybe that's the point. Maybe the point is that sometimes we do feel so strongly about it, that to us, it feels like an entire bending of the word, an entire lack of understanding of the base meaning, but that's not necessarily what it has to be, maybe they still are coming up that authentically for themselves. It's just entirely diverges from what we would even call the area of definition.
Cristina Amigoni:
I think going beyond just putting words on a piece of paper and say "here are my values", but doing the exercises of great, how do you show up when you live into your values? Let's come up with some examples. And how would you like to show up differently when you don't live into your values, what challenges your values, so going deeper, beyond the one Word, that's when you then understand. Okay, Alex, his definition of integrity is like mine, we can actually continue here, or no it seems like we're not quite there yet. And so what do I want to do with this relationship? Or what do I want to do with this job or this company? Because how much am I going to be willing to struggle against something that it's completely a polar opposite to what I believe.
Alex Cullimore:
I think that's such a key part of forming any relationship with your job, with other people. If you think about the timeline of a relationship over a certain amount of time, and spending enough time together, you start to develop some amount of shared vocabulary, right, there is a lexicon and a certain jargon, essentially, almost specific to only that relationship. And it might be used to your company, your company to the employees, or you to a friend, you to a co-worker, you to an individual person, right? That you get that shared vocabulary, because you're sharing those levels of understanding. And to use this swimming upstream metaphor, when though that shared vocabulary is already on a similar grounding a similar footing, that's going to be a lot easier, and it'll feel a lot less like swimming upstream to get to know that person, to work with their values, to mesh with their values and to be able to work together well.
Cristina Amigoni:
It's very true. One of the things that I've noticed is, if you go too far into not living into your values, and kind of pushing them to the side and waiting for "well, maybe the next week will be better, maybe the next month will be better, maybe this is just getting to know each other or getting to figure out what's going on in this project," you do get so deep into the cave of survival, because now your values are constantly being challenged, and a lot of them are constantly being challenged, and you really get into this fight or flight or freeze situation where every time something happens, which is most likely on a daily basis, you're like, "okay, do I fight this one? Do I run away from this? Or do I just stay quiet and freeze and expect that the tiger maybe will just not see me, think I'm a tree and keep walking." And so when that happens day after day, after day, it really takes being so disturbed, that you're venting to friends. And then and it happens, it's happened to me, which is why this is all very graphic, and venting to friends and then looking at you and be like, Cristina, what's happening in this situation goes against everything you believe in? How do you not see that? That's the conflict.
Alex Cullimore:
And to the question earlier, that is one instance where a coach is super helpful, because that's that third party perspective that says "do you see the pattern?" That's where coaching is not unsimilar to that friendship level connection, where you're trying to just meet that person as that person, there's enough understanding to be like, this is not you? That's why this is a problem.
Cristina Amigoni:
And a coach is great. Great coaches are really good at that. Because if you've had a relationship and a conversation with them in the past, values have come up. And so they'll be the first ones to say, "Well, yeah, no kidding, you're struggling, remind me which values do you have again?" And then, as you verbalize that, and you say it out loud, you kind of connect the dots on your own. And you're like, "oh, that's why I can't sleep because one of my values is connecting with people and I am forced to work alone."
Alex Cullimore:
I like to you're saying that it feels like you're pulling away, you're feeling you're pulling into a cave, because you're talking about insomnia being something for you, if you feel the stress of that situation, when I think back on instances where values have become more and more distanced, in my day to day experience, from what I hold them in my head, I feel that collapsing, that cringing inward that pulling in words to where you are in a much more defensive role. And I can notice it now a little bit faster. But it is one of the later physical symptoms, I have a lot of other little twitches and tweaks as those are challenged in the moment, which I have not been up to recently good at listening to. But when I look at the long term one, that's what starts to happen over the long term, I start to almost physically slouch and crouch down and get smaller and just defensive and pulled away. And I can feel the not wanting to connect with people because I don't trust what the reaction is going to be or I just I don't want to engage in this. Because to your point, it's either going to be a fight or flight or just I guess, a sting that you remember and wonder, think about while you're not sleeping.
Cristina Amigoni:
The hours of insomnia. It's interesting, because when I think back of situations, hindsight is 2020, where my values were being challenged, and I was so deep into it that I didn't recognize, I don't know that I didn't recognize. I didn't want to admit that that was what was going on because I knew it was so deep and so core, that the only solution really would probably have been to leave. And I didn't want to do that. So that's why I would be looking for something. give me some hope here that this is temporary, and it's not permanent, and it's not just the way it is. But when I think about that, and how I felt, all I can see in my mind is darkness, very dark something around me and myself slouching down as in if I were watching myself in a dream, and feeling so just pushed down in all sorts of ways. And when I think about moments where I could live into my values, and they were accepted, and I was fully myself and in the flow, the image in my mind, and I do a lot of photographic images in my mind of situations, it's brightness, it's sunlight, it's openness, it's air, it's being on top of a mountain in the meadows, and looking around and admiring the peaks.
Alex Cullimore:
I like that metaphor a lot. Because if I think back about times when I've had that. I love the darkness metaphor and the shutting metaphor, when you said that it evoked a realization, in me just now where as thinking about times where I was in a more difficult place, or feeling the challenge of not living in what I felt like I probably should be living in which is now living in your values, not living in what you feel like you should be doing when that voice is screaming in your head that says, "You should not be doing this", even though you keep doing it day after day. When I look back at those memories, you know in horror movies, where sometimes they'll open the curtain, and it's all fogged out, there's literally nothing else, when I think back of the memories of those times, and it feels almost out of body. So it again feels like a horror movie where you're just watching yourself as a character here. But I can't really picture what's out the windows, it's dark, it feels like it's just this closed in space, where you're just living in your bedroom, your room, your office, and I can't think of the outdoors. And when you said you think about the peaks and being outside and sunny, that is what it feels like when I think about more happy memories, I might have been inside and in an office, but regardless of whether it was true that day, it feels like a sunny day. And in memory, it feels like that was definitely a day where the sun was coming in. And you could have walked outside and a T-shirt because it's just such a nice spring day.
Cristina Amigoni:
That's such a good feeling to think about. I can definitely relate to that. So how did you figure out your values?
Alex Cullimore:
That's a journey. One that's been difficult. I recently actually just even within the last month started doing a lot more refocusing on that and understanding it. And one thing that kept coming up was realizing some contextual differences. Some boxes that I had created in my head, there were moments where I was in college, I was really connected to this one group, which did social justice work. And I loved the work. I really liked connecting with the people, they were very friendly. But I didn't necessarily let myself connect as much as I think I would have, because there were aspects of it that felt similar to other groups that I was disconnected with. There were groups that I did a lot of theater and acting, and some of the social justice work was doing acting. And I had done a lot of theater in just regional theater and things like that. And some of the groups, it's harder to connect to. And it feels like there's not the emotional connection, but in my mind, I had kind of tied these two as to theater groups, even though they were two totally different values lived. And in retrospect, looking back at that, I can say, "oh, the group that I really engaged with, there were some values matching there. And I really liked the people." And it wasn't even if there were similar contexts, the feeling was so entirely different. And I wasn't good at listening to it. And in retrospect, I can look back and say, oh, there are other times when I've had that disparity where I'm either sitting in a consulting job and thinking, I think there's something else I want to do or sitting in. You start to notice the patterns in reverse. And that's where I started to realize this. And when you find those words, then suddenly your mind's filling in the blanks all the way back, right? You find the words that feel right, you're like, "Oh, yeah, look at this through line through my entire life." It's like, it must be like palm reading or something. You look back, you're like, "yep, that started day one". And for me, it started to come out that things like authenticity, which is obviously a fun time since that's our main topic of this show, as well as equality and uniqueness. All of these things tended to be a through line and the things that I wanted to be doing. We've talked about the idea of belonging before, even though there were certainly difficulties, I like being in the middle of a Venn diagram with very little overlap. I like that uniqueness. I like that feeling of having two sides of you that not a lot of people would necessarily be able to share or have in their day to day life. I liked the equality and understanding what works and doesn't work. And looking back, it's all about the energy I had around it. And when you told me that you had said that on your call, when they asked you, how do you find values, you said, it's about energy that connected with me, that's what I understood. That was the through line. If I'd been listening and tuned in a little better to what was working for me and not working for me, I would have evaluated these situations entirely differently.
Cristina Amigoni:
That's awesome. And I just realized that I don't think we ever shared our own values with each other, but somehow they match, so we're good. I think we just lived by them. And we've made it point to live by them so much that we didn't have to declare them. You don't need a poster when you just feel it every day all day.
Alex Cullimore:
Yeah, language in that way is almost trying to speed up that connection and speed up that understanding, but the feeling has to be there from both sides. And that's why one person's interpretation of language can lead to a mismatch, because somebody's interpretation of integrity doesn't have to do with honesty, apparently, again, still blown away by that one. I don't know how that works, but we could have totally different interpretations looking at a poster on a wall that says integrity. And we feel like we're connected to that because we both have we, as people, have some definition in our head of that. And we're like, "yes, integrity is important to me." But we could totally be ships passing in the night on our actual understanding.
Cristina Amigoni:
Maybe it's the definition of honesty, where it felt through, maybe integrity as the same definition, as long as you understand what the definition of honesty is.
Alex Cullimore:
Yeah, maybe. Again, that was another one where I'm like, "Where's What? What's the second interpretation of honesty?"
Cristina Amigoni:
Well, not to completely derail. but since honestly is part of my values, my interpretation of honesty has also is very tied to courage, which means you have to be able to not hide things and being honest, doesn't mean I won't lie to your face, being honest, in my mind means I will also share information with you that impacts you, regardless of how hard it is to share it. And I know that could definitely be interpreted differently, because a lot of the honesty is like, "well, as long as I'm not lying straight to your face. I'm being honest," that's not my interpretation of honesty.
Alex Cullimore:
I like that definition in my mind. Integrity is, and I'm going to say Venn diagram again. That's apparently just some metaphor I'm stuck on. Integrity for me is that intersection between honesty and courage, it is where you are being forthcoming, you are being honest, and you have the courage to do that, in general situations. And speaking to one thing I just thought of on courage, I think it's a quote, or maybe it's just taken from a story. I'll have to google it after this. We'll put it in the show notes. But there's a it's a parable, I guess, where a child asks their parents, is it possible for someone to be brave when they're scared? And the parent answers, that's the only time you can be brave? I don't remember where that's from, but that's the feeling. in my mind. That's when courage is real. You can have courage in theory all day long, but courage is real when you're challenged.
Cristina Amigoni:
Well, and to me, that's the same as honesty. And I love the Venn diagram, actually, I think I'm gonna steal that. But that's the thing for me, it's honesty, just like, well, it's easy to be honest, if you don't have to actually say anything that you're uncomfortable with. Or if you just let someone believes something, and it's just like, "Well, they didn't ask me a question, I'm not saying no or yes, so I'm being honest." And everybody can be honest that way. Being honest is having the courage to actually say "hey, it looks like you are going down a path where you believe something that I know it's not true. So I have the courage to tell you, this is what's actually going on."
Alex Cullimore:
That's another example of when coaching can become helpful, having somebody else that can have that perspective, to remind you of the things that are very easy and natural to forget, over time, we'll have moments where we drift away from that, where we don't realize we're not living our values, or we're not, it's your point earlier, willing to admit that to ourselves. Having that third party, courageous perspective able to tell you that and say this just doesn't seem like it lines up with my understanding of you. And if you can phrase it, especially in a way like that, which doesn't create defensiveness of something like "Well, you're making the same mistake you've made 1000 times you're not living your values." That's where you're now you're off a different rabbit hole trying to defend yourself from shame, but if you can say it in that more, this just doesn't seem like you way, it allows for the introspection and the person to realize what they need to realize, which is, "oh, this just doesn't fit, this is not this is not natural and trying to force something".
Cristina Amigoni:
It's so true. Two things came to mind when you were saying that and I'm pretty sure I forgot. Let me see if I remember one. Having the outside perspective always helps, having the coach, the friend, the the tight relationship where they can see things more clearly. Because you're in the weeds. And they don't need to push you or challenge you in, I guess, in a pushy way to use the same word
Alex Cullimore:
aggressive kind of way.
Cristina Amigoni:
Yes, exactly. They can definitely guide you into coming up with your own realization, which is the definition of coaching. Coaching is not advising, it's not telling you the answers. It's just holding a little tiny torch as you are walking around in the dark, so that you can see more clearly because you have the answers inside of you. And your answers are always going to be different than mine, which is why me telling you what I would do doesn't help you at all, from a coaching perspective.
Alex Cullimore:
That's another important, on the journey to values, somebody telling you what they would do might feel comforting sometimes. And sometimes it can definitely feel cathartic, where you're like, "oh, somebody else feels that way." If you're feeling the catharsis, if you're feeling that connection with "Oh, that feels authentic to me, and that feels connected to how I am reacting to this", then you're probably on the right path. If you're just like," this situation feels stressful, and I have now confirmed with somebody else, that they might do the same thing". You might be avoiding the real conflict there, you're not actually facing what you need to be facing. And that's when you're going through and finding values. It's such a personal exercise, and it's one worth sharing and talking to people because you can get other feedback, you can understand that better, and take everything, anyone else says with a grain of salt, because values are personal to you, only you.
Cristina Amigoni:
True, and as we explained the interpretation of this value is also personal only to you and you. And it's a good point, because if you don't, if you just declare them, if you just put the posters up, it's one thing, but if you actually live by them, you don't have to declare them as much. Like if I think through the projects that our team now is working on and the fact that we have an issue and risks log, which is empty. And it's not because there aren't issues or risk or at least risks at this point. There are no issues yet. But it's because one of my values is honesty and integrity and direct communication and transparency. So those are four or five of my values, but they're my top values. And so as soon as we do encounter a red flag, or even an orange flag, or at this point, even a yellow flag, I pick up the phone, I call the client and I tell them, "Hey, we sort of heard this, or this is what happened in this meeting, and we think there may be a concern, what should we do about it?" And so we resolve the issue or the risk right there. And then and so then I go back, and it's the end of the week, and I'm creating the weekly report, and I am like, "no, still no issues and risks," because we resolve them on the spot. We didn't wait until we have these cumulative list of things that were never actually brought up.
Alex Cullimore:
That's a fascinating in a number of instances. I mean, first of all, that's a great way to approach consulting and just work in general, consulting aside, that's a great way to approach work if we if you can get to that point where the honesty can happen immediately. There's no time for issues to grow into bigger issues, and you'll identify something quicker, and you'll be working on a solution quicker. And you'll develop the trust back and forth, because they now trust you to bring up an issue that's coming up, you can trust yourself to be talking about that quickly. It just is trust on both sides that you can say something that may be an issue that you're not going to get pushed back or blamed for as well as trusting that somebody is going to come to you with an issue. And that also works with values, not just because your values are transparency and honesty and for straightforward communication. I think if both parties are existing with their values, that comfort is a lot easier to achieve, the comfort with each other to have those conversations regardless of whether you're coming forward straight with honesty. It's just that you're both comfortable enough in your own skins and with each other, that you're going to have that open communication almost by default.
Cristina Amigoni:
And to go back to the physical manifestation, one of the reasons why I do approach it that way, and it's not just in this project, this is how I've been most of my life. I think anybody that has worked with me in any of the jobs knows that as you once defined it, I unflinchingly communicate good and bad news. And I do it right away. And so one of the things for me is that I know if I start thinking about something, I start creating the conversation in my head,. having to bring up whatever possible issue uncomfortableness, whatever it is that it's in my head. I will go through the conversation three or four times and then realize if I don't resolve this now, I'm not going to sleep tonight, and I'm not willing to sacrifice my sleep, I like it too much. So pick up the phone and have the conversation.
Alex Cullimore:
That's a great example of how living your values ends up helping you in the end, like not only in work, obviously, that's helping the relationship there, but you're training yourself to do the things that will get you that sleep, that will essentially turn around and take care of yourself, which is going to turn around and help you take care of other people and take care of business and take care of what you need to be doing.
Cristina Amigoni:
And the crazy thing is that conversations that we avoid, because something is off, are mostly, they're always worse in our head than they actually are in reality. And that's what I found whenever I'm finding myself wanting to hide away from the conversation or, you know, hoping that it would somehow disappearance and resolve itself without anybody bringing it up. I then remember "wait, I have no idea how this conversation is gonna go." I'm just making assumptions, which is why I'm thinking about avoiding it. But if I just bring it up, and then see how it goes, without any expectations one way or the other, with the only outcome of just providing information and sharing, then it always just kind of resolves itself. It's like, "okay, let's have this conversation, let's figure out what the issue is, let's make a plan," done.
Alex Cullimore:
Yeah, that's the dangerous part about assumptions. And everybody likes to say, you know, you make assumptions, you make an "ass" of you and me, because it's just the classic go to line. The real trick there I found out much later in life is that it's easy to say "Sure, I won't make assumptions. I get it, that's wrong." But it's so hard to detect assumptions when they're happening. You like the story you're talking about, you're writing the conversation in your head, you have a giant assumption on how they're going to react. And if you continue that conversation, you are basing that off of that initial hypothetical assumption and probably building off of there. But by the time you're on the second assumption, the second turn in the conversation, you have now logged in your mind that assumption is fact like, this is how that's going to go. And because that's how this is going to go, I'm gonna have to be worried about this thing. And then because that's how that's going to go. And by the time you've hit that, because you've solidified in your mind that assumption, as fact, you have forgotten that you made that as an assumption.
Cristina Amigoni:
Assumptions are a very slippery slope. And so the sooner you can get rid of it, the better. And it's true, "Yes, I know, I shouldn't make assumptions." I'm a coach, I coach that every day all day. And yes, I make assumptions every single minute. The question is, again, "are my assumptions, challenging my values?" And if I know my values very clearly, which, again, they change, but I know my main ones pretty clearly, then what do I do about it? That's when I know action has to happen. I can't just sit on it.
Alex Cullimore:
And hoping for something to change.
Cristina Amigoni:
Exactly.
Alex Cullimore:
See, the point about values changing too, we have to be ready for that in our own lives, something may just feel more important later, I liked your example of later you might have a family. It wasn't important now or then, but it is now, because now it's a portion of life. That's a very tangible one. But there's a lot more subtle things that will change throughout life where we might start to feel something as far more important, like I started to understand connection is far more important over the course of my career. When I first started, I was very much like we were talking about at the beginning, I was focused on the skills the day to day the "how does this look? What do I have to learn?" And I took that in very discreet, very specific ways of I have to learn, when I was starting out in development, I have to learn SQL so that I can do database stuff, I have to learn this and you find these checkboxes and I think it's comforting to feel like there are checkboxes to go hit. But it misses the larger picture of" what am I doing? How am I doing it? And how does that affect how I'm working?" Because we might have the same skills, the same position in multiple different companies, but it's gonna feel entirely different every time either from our own values or from the context, or from our own position in life
Cristina Amigoni:
It definitely is and the definitions will change too. So your values change, the ranking of those values changes. And also you get nearer, more specific on what it means, what does integrity mean? What does honesty mean? To me, and it really comes back to keep track of experiences and how you felt in those experiences. And that's how you can define, "okay when I talk about connections, I talk about connections in this way.
Alex Cullimore:
And Connections is a great example for me, because connections can be interpreted so many different ways. You can interpret that as like LinkedIn connections, people you happen to know on the occasion or you can interpret connections as somebody you feel almost soul matched with, like that Train song Soul Sister, just somebody who's like, some people can assume connection might mean that level of just absolute match absolute puzzle pieces that fit together and some people might think it's just this person that I know that I would be okay with texting if I happen to come back into their town one day and maybe we'll meet up for a coffee, that's also a form of connection. And until you start to define that for yourself, it's open for interpretation, both for you and for other people, if you're telling them I value connection, totally different interpretation, and easy to easier to see in my mind how those are different interpretations, then to see how somebody might come to integrity from two entirely different sides.
Cristina Amigoni:
Still have a hard time with that one. But I agree, connections can definitely be different even within ourselves, besides between people, but within ourselves, some connections are okay to be connections that "I reach out once a year, once every 10 years, and I still feel connected." And some other types of connections need to be deeper, I know that, for example, when it comes to connections for me, I don't do shallow, I don't do you know, let's just stay on the surface and not really sure what's going on between us and be vulnerable with each other and authentic with each other. I don't have time for that. Sorry, I'm 45 years old, and I have zero interest or time to stay so shallow that we're you're not actually going to tell me what's going on, I'm just gonna see it in the tone of your voice or your face. And know that it's not all rainbows and sunshine, because it can't be.
Alex Cullimore:
I like that definition, too, that it is different internally for us. And when you assign that as your core value, you're probably taking one of those definitions maybe a little bit more to the core value, then others, you're taking deep connections as more of your core value than the connections that you're like, "yes, I'm happy to keep these up and I would consider this connected." But your overall theme of connection is that it has to be at some level of deeper level, which I'm assuming if there's somebody you can talk to once a year, once every 10 years, there was enough background of connection that that was even on the top of your minds to go do again, to go reach out after that time.
Cristina Amigoni:
Yeah, oh, definitely. "I have a lot of friends that I made, some very good friends that I made in Switzerland when I worked there 25 or some years ago, or more. And those are the types of people that I know that we don't have to speak all the time. But when we do, we're going straight deep. There's no just dancing around and pretending and none of that. We pick up where we left off. I know there are people that if I needed them, they would show up in a second and that's the connections. The people that I wonder "hey, if I actually break down on the side of the road, will this person actually pick up the phone if I call?" Those are the connections that I'm not interested in.
Alex Cullimore:
Yeah. I like that as a litmus test of what would be a connection or not? Yeah, that's a great example, also of having to find connection for yourself, you may think, originally and start to understand connection is important to you. but it is the experience over time that will teach you that, that's the level I'm looking for it. That's when I sayconnection to myself and to others, that's what I mean. And when you have that connection, then somebody else can also understand that's what you mean by connection. And it makes it easier for the group to have that dynamic.
Cristina Amigoni:
Yes, exactly.
Alex Cullimore:
Thinking about rounding up some of the things we've said about how to get to values. I think, for me, the most abstract and basic level that applies to all of the rest of these is energy. And I think that's a great way of putting it, we have an energy we want to get to, we have a specific way we're interacting with the world, which either makes us feel more energized or less. And there are a lot of different ways to figure that out. There are some great assessments, you've done the via character strengths, VIA. That's a good one. I think I've done that one a long time ago. And I can't remember what that one was now, what the result was. And there's the Standout assessment by Marcus Buckingham, that one's a good one. There's also that journal activity that you had pointed out that is a great starting place if you're looking for just some some kickoff, trying to get to that feeling. And that journal exercise. And correct me if I'm changing the details here was for 30 days to write at the end of the day, what made me feel energized and what took energy away from me today.
Cristina Amigoni:
That's correct.
Unknown:
And then you can look back over those 30 days and find the trends.
Cristina Amigoni:
And it's really fascinating, because I did that for about I think 90 days straight. And it's really fascinating, especially in the first 30 to see how like, "Oh, I'm writing the same things day after day after day after day." Maybe in the draining section, something is against something I truly believe in, something that really impacts me. So what is that and you start defining the story around the value and the energizes, is day after day after day you start writing "Oh, I connected with this person. And I had a great conversation with this other person. And I got to work with this team and we were laughing," then, again, that's the signal.
Alex Cullimore:
One of the interesting things that brought up for me is that there is that level of comfort and understanding. You brought up you were kind of talking generically for a second there. I don't know if you noticed it, when you were saying the things that took energy away, you're saying, "Oh, yeah, well, day after day, this started to feel" and you didn't say anything specific. And the second you turned your attention to the "what was energizing you", you listed conversations, connections, and who you are. Because for you that was so immediately to the front, right. And that absolutely makes sense. That is 100% in your values. And that made me think of Simon Sinek talking about finding your why. And he mentioned that every time people find it, they believe. "Well, of course, that's what everybody's is." Because it is so natural. It is so specific to us, that we believe that is just, of course, that feels amazing. When that happens, when I have that connection, when I do whatever x thing that has made me feel that way. It's weird that we externalize so many of the bad things. And then when we find that good thing that works for us, we just assume it's common, right? "Oh, yeah. Oh, sure. Everybody must feel that. I mean, why not? Who wouldn't feel that?" And that's also why energy to me is such a good throughline for this. Because that's the more pure form of energy that is getting you out of bed, is when it's so natural to you that you wouldn't even almost consider it a value. "Of course, that's important. Why are we even talking about that? That's, that's basic. Everybody has that."
Cristina Amigoni:
Everybody does, how's that connection is not everybody's value. It's true. It's a very good observation. I didn't even notice it as I was doing it. But it's almost like there's a shame in what drains your energy, because you just feel it, you want to go back into the cave in the darkness. And if you're in a cave in darkness, and you want to hide, the last thing you want to say is actually say it out loud in a podcast.
Alex Cullimore:
I think there's also a tendency, and I felt it in my life to hide some of the good portions. And and for me, I was growing up, it was very much reinforced, you should be a hard worker, definitely dedicate yourself to what you're doing. And because you've put the word work in that sentence, it feels like it must be things that you don't enjoy, that you must dedicate yourself to. And that I think also can obscure values from ourselves. We're like, "sure if that feels good, but I can't focus on that right now. Because that's not going to help me long term. That's just something that feels good." And then you lose out on the option to make that a career, make that into something or integrate that into the workplace you're already in.
Cristina Amigoni:
I love the fact that you brought up the word "work", because I'm finding myself having a hard time saying that like this, what we're doing right now is work, because there is that kind of underlying connotation of well, you're not supposed to like it. It's supposed to feel draining, you're supposed to get tired of doing it. And I'm like, none of that is true for me. So yeah, it's work, but it's life.
Alex Cullimore:
Yeah. And this is the first thing that I've done that we could call work and I also don't have any of those any of the "work" feelings about. And it's the first time that I started to think that the people who say, "Oh, just find something you like to do, and it won't feel like work." It's the first time I've realized that might actually be something true, because up to this point, I would have been like, "Okay, well, you're a fantastic optimist. And I think that's a wonderful thing you should keep doing. But I don't think you're being honest with yourself, Work is work. And we'll all just have to deal with some amount of it." And yeah, we have to deal with some amount of overhead. And there's pieces we do. But I didn't trust that was a real thing until I started to actually experience that.
Cristina Amigoni:
I know we talked about doing a podcast episode on this, but I was lucky enough to experience the work life unbalance in a good way of work can actually be part of what you enjoy waking up in the morning and doing every single day when I wa in my first job in Switzerland when I was 18. And so I've been searching for that ever since. Because I knew it existed. The pot at the end of the rainbow exists.
Alex Cullimore:
That's another great way of finding values and finding when you're moving away from them. And journaling, I think for me helps identify those and then you start to almost do the research yourself and you figure out what what works and doesn't work and you can get a lot more specific with your search. But that feeling of there was a pot of gold and I want to get back to it or I haven't had a pot of gold yet. I'm going to try and keep the faith that it's out there. That's when you can start looking for values because you know, A) you're not feeling it right now or B) there was a time when I felt it and I need to rediscover what led to that. So I can try and infuse life with that.
Cristina Amigoni:
Wery good point. So we tangened out of our wrapping up as usual. I think we're good to get there. As Alex mentioned, there's some great assessments. They may not be value specific assessments, but they give you an idea of what matters to you. That's the VIA character strengths, it shows you what really matters to you, what energizes you, back to the energy, and what drains your energy and then some of the definitions and the explanations can come back to "oh, it looks like people connecting with people are part of my top strength, so maybe there's something there that I need to pay attention to". The standout assessment, again, it's a really good one for that. Because as you define whatyour ideal way of showing up is, whether you're a creator, teacher, whatever it is, again, you can kind of dig deeper and extract "what does this mean, in terms of values? What are the things that I value that come out of this."
Alex Cullimore:
And through the example of what you might get at the end of a standout assessment, they can be things like creator, teacher, innovator, protector, and I list those four, because I think the first two were yours and I think the last two were mine. Those just came out, those are the ones that I remember. But that's an example of how yes, those aren't necessarily values, those sound like identities, but those can help inform you of times and help you guide your reflection on times in which you were more the protector or innovator, or that energized you or give you a framework to kind of reevaluate, "I did feel good in that moment, did it have to do with some of these things?"
Cristina Amigoni:
And when it comes to actually living into the values, forgive yourself, you're not always going to live into your values, we're human, we're not perfect. As long as you know and you noticed that that happened and so you will show up differently the next time. That's a big step. And also, if a value is continuously being challenge, then it's totally fine to give it time, I've given most of them way more time than I probably should have, but I wanted to see if it was a permanent thing or a temporary thing, before making a rash decision to say "what communication is just not happening here as I expected it to be". And so I'm going to give it 24 hours and then get the hell out. Sometimes it is that clear. Sometimes you just kind of want to give it a chance. And that's okay, too because it's only going to solidify what your values are and how important they are.
Alex Cullimore:
Values really help guide us and they don't have, to your point, be there every single day. And they definitely won't be there every day, as I'm sure people will get tired of hearing us say, it's a practice, it's something that you do over time, and you just understand and start to integrate. And because you're practicing it, it starts to become natural, it starts to be the foot you lead with, "oh, this seems more like my values or oh, this, I'm feeling the pull towards this." And then you might be able to immediately look at like, "wait, why am I feeling that pull? Oh, look at all these values that line up, look at how, of course that feels energizing to me." And now you're already halfway through the step there. You're not turning away anymore, you're not evaluating on trying to be "well, they're all the logical things" like when we try and throw down pros and cons lists when we're changing jobs or something. And we're like, "well, this job has, you know, $5,000 a year more versus this job is at a different zip code than I'd prefer to be in" and we try and put the those things on it when I think I would happily drive an extra 20 minutes, if I was lined up in the values and was excited and energized. Because you're not gonna be feeling every mile every of those 20 minutes. Whereas you are going to be if you're not aligned.
Cristina Amigoni:
You can not pay me enough to work in a job that goes very much against my values. Yeah, I would rather bag groceries at King Soopers. I actually do like bagging groceries.
Alex Cullimore:
It's a fit and you get connects with people.
Cristina Amigoni:
Exactly. You know, and I get to organize things. It's all in my values. But that's the thing. It's just not worth it. The energy that gets drained the impact on relationships at home and outside of work, just the not sleeping, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it.
Alex Cullimore:
And I like to go back when editing episodes of this podcast even and just it's fun to listen to the energy because I can hear it in myself and I can hear you it's times where we get to have that energy. And it's really fun to do. And for that reason, I'm very grateful that people like to tune in and like to listen, I hope this is helpful for people. This is very fun to do.
Cristina Amigoni:
The to. And I know we've mentioned that a couple of times, but values, life values based life and exercise and living through it, is a practice and it's a practice that I would personally not recommend doing alone. One of the things that has helped me define my values and live by them more clearly is coaching. I have several coaches. And that's what's helped me, because they help me get out of the cave, they guide me out of it, they remind me what those are, if I didn't have coaches, and close relationships to actually remind me all my values, I am pretty sure I would not be on this podcast right now.
Alex Cullimore:
And you talked about like sitting at a restaurant with friends, and you have maybe a list of complaints at that point. And they say, this just doesn't feel aligned to you. And then in your mind, you go back and you're like, "Oh, this isn't." That's where that social net, I think is so helpful. Not only have you verbalized it, and so you've put it in a different context in your head and had to come up with the words to communicate it to people. It's like having an external voice that will be the voice that when you're lucky, you end up finding anyway, you look back and internally, you're like, "ah, that voice was there, that voice was there all along." And when you have the friends in the journey along the way, that can be a voice that comes up much sooner, because they're not telling themselves the story that you're telling, that got you to the point where you're frustrated and ignoring that mismatch, they can be the voice earlier than the voice that you will later discover was talking all along.
Cristina Amigoni:
Exactly, it is the voice. So thank you for another episode and other great conversation.
Alex Cullimore:
Thank you guys. And this is clearly one of our favorite topics.
Cristina Amigoni:
I'm sure the values will come up over and over and over. So have fun looking for your values and start paying attention with where's your energy when you do that.
Alex Cullimore:
And we would love to hear any stories of people who either found their values or on a journey to find values. We love talking about that. Please feel free to reach out to us if you want to connect on that. We like connection, obviously. And this is one thing that's always super fun to connect on. So please reach out if you feel so inclined. Thank you so much for joining.
Cristina Amigoni:
Thank you. Thank you for listening to Uncover The Human, a SIAMO podcast.
Alex Cullimore:
Special thanks to our podcast operations wizard Jake Lara and our score creator Raechel Sherwood.
Cristina Amigoni:
If you have enjoyed this episode, please share, review and subscribe. You can find our episodes wherever you listen to podcasts.
Alex Cullimore:
We would love to hear from you with feedback, topic ideas or questions. You can reach us at podcast@wearesiamo.com or on our website wearesiamo.com LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook.
Cristina Amigoni:
Until next time, listen to yourself, listen to others and always uncover the human.
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