Creating Space for Growth: The Power of Safe, Authentic Connection

Alex Cullimore: Over time it's just going to build up as natural in life. The dust of life will build up on one side and the other, and helping yourself identify, as well as clear out that. It's just part of general maintenance.

Welcome to Uncover the Human where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives.

Cristina Amigoni: Whether that's with our families, coworkers, or even ourselves.

Alex Cullimore: When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.

Cristina Amigoni: This is Cristina Amigoni.

Alex Cullimore: This is Alex Cullimore.

Both: Let's dive in.

"Authenticity means freedom."

"Authenticity means going with your gut."

"Authenticity is bringing 100% of yourself not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you."

"Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself."

"It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep-rooted and true."

"Authenticity is when you truly know yourself. You remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be."

"It's transparency, relatability. No frills. No makeup. Just being."

Alex Cullimore: Welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human. Today, it's just Cristina and I. We are here to talk about one of our favorite topics, space. How we get space, how we create space for ourselves, giving ourselves the space to process. We've talked about it in kind of different terms before, but this time, we'll really get to dive into what it means to give yourself space and why that's valuable. Not just for you, but for everybody around you.

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, I thought we were talking about Star Trek. Space is the new frontier, isn't that the headline? 

Alex Cullimore: Final frontier, I think.

Cristina Amigoni:  Final frontier. There is space, it is, but space is the final frontier. That was a subtle message.

Alex Cullimore: Yes, they say that, but then we tackle space, and then it's going to be time, and time will be the final frontier, and then we'll do time travel, and then it'll be whatever the fifth dimension is.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. I think there was a subtle message in the Star Trek line. Space is the final frontier because it is in our context. Space is really what allows people to process what's happening and once they have that safe space to process that. They can move on to thinking more strategically, to responding instead of reacting, to release whatever is festering that hasn't been resolved. So that they can then move to solutions, innovation, all those things that we want employees and people to be living in.

Alex Cullimore: That absolutely makes sense. If we were to back out just a little bit and put you on the spot a little bit here. How would you define space if you think about what space means to you, what that looks like? 

Cristina Amigoni: Well, right now, I'm on a Star Trek ship going into the void. But outside of that, a space where in reality, not in fantasy, or in my head. It's really that time – there goes with the time and space continuum, but it's happening.

Alex Cullimore: We made it, the new frontier.

Cristina Amigoni: We made it. I know. Now, if we can get to time travel by the end of the call in 15 minutes or less, we're good.

Alex Cullimore: The finalist frontier.

Cristina Amigoni: It's really taking the time and having the time with somebody else. I think the space with somebody else, there is a value in taking space for ourselves, which we can talk about. But there's also just an equal or maybe higher value in taking the space with somebody else that provides in a time to just listen, to listen, acknowledge, and validate, and yes, maybe ask some clarifying questions and are allowed for digging deeper.

What I'm basically describing is a coaching conversation. Whether it's a formal coaching engagement or just a coaching-driven conversation, where it's truly just about allowing someone to process all the stuff that's in their head. We've talked about it before when it comes to deep listening. We think an average of 900 words a minute, and they're jumbled. There's all sorts of stuff happening in our heads. When we can take the time to just unravel that, unravel that yarn, unravel all that stuff, thoughts, and emotions that have been building up sometimes, especially when there's big transitions happening when there's big pieces of life that are thrown at us. We just need to know that it's okay to think about it, talk about it, get it out.

I just heard two different podcasts – and at some point, I'll stop talking. Two different podcasts that really both highlight how, when we are in, as humans, we absolutely need community, and we need community for our safety. It is a survival need. When we are either grieving, struggling, made a mistake, in shame, anything that's an unwanted emotion, anything that's a challenging emotion. Our instinct is to isolate, while, what actually we need is to be in community is to be with somebody else so that we can share what's happening with us, and release it and really try to let it out in that safe space where there's lack of judgment. It's not about action. It's not about what are you going to do about it, what's the solution, what about it, what if you do this, what if you do that. It's truly just about getting it out. That's what space looks like.

Alex Cullimore: That's a great definition. It makes me think that there's kind of a running through line of the ones you're talking about there is that there's kind of an observational quality to space. You can think about this in terms of all of the practices that you might employ to give yourself a little space. You could do anything from meditation, and journaling, which might be a little bit more individual, all the way to therapy, coaching, community groups, et cetera. There are support groups, whatever it might look like, all the way to larger forum things. But then, observation, it seems important.

If you're in the middle of meditation, you're there to observe your thoughts, you're there to not be taken by them, you get that space for response, not reaction because you are in that observing portion. When you're writing things down in a journal, that's you essentially unfiltered, putting your thoughts out there, putting them in and observing them yourself. In that portion of the brain that has to put together language to write, write something down. So, you have this other entity that is there to go do the responding. Then, you get into things like coaching and therapy, where you have somebody there facilitating this discussion and providing an F of a space and a safe space where you do just let the thoughts out and have them be observed. 

Again, to point it's not about jumping in and solving that. It's not jumping in and making sure this is all better right away, or figuring out within an hour, how is this going to be resolved. It's about getting that space to think about it, to not have it be overwhelming, to not have all the pieces that just circle in our head. We're like, well, I could do this. But then. I'm going to have to think about this, but then I'm going to have to think about that. Before you know it, you've walked yourself in a full thought loop, and you're back to the beginning like, "Oh, here's what I do need to do." And you can walk that loop a thousand times until somebody is there, observing this, and helping you note the patterns, and giving you a chance to let that out so you're not just in the same kind of mental rut.

There are some brainwave studies that have shown that we can just kind of have default patterns. We call it the default mode network, which is kind of our default settings for life. You can kind of think of them as well-worn paths. You just automatically walk from A to B in this way, and you don't have to. Your brain is filled with trillions of connections. You can walk different paths, but it will always kind of take by default the more convenient ones. So, sometimes that space is enough for us to do a little bit of exploring and a little bit of stepping out of that norm, and a little bit of, "I'm not just going to walk the same path I've walked so many times, that it's beaten down. There's no more grass on it, it's all just dirt and gravel, but I can go try and walk through the field this time or walk around, go see the tree, whatever it is." That gives us that moment to reflect, to look at something a little bit larger, and to take that space that isn't just the tunnel that we've walked through a dozen times before. 

Cristina Amigoni: I've just walked through around the trees and into the tunnel, or not in the tunnel, but whatever imaging you were providing, I was trying to walk in that path.

Alex Cullimore: We get used to those paths, but then space can give us that moment to look and be like, "Oh, I've been walking this path a lot. Are there other options?" Sometimes, you can get to that point in a conversation with people. Definitely, we've gotten there in coaching conversations. I've had that in therapy conversations, where it just, at some point, you realize just by the fact that you're sharing this out loud, and you're givn that space to process those thoughts. You see the pattern you're walking on, and you might want to make another choice. You might want to turn left here just to try it. It doesn't have to be permanent; it doesn't have to be the right choice all the time, it just has to be something different.

That space gives us the chance to do that, where if we don't give ourselves that space, we're likely to just continue to use the Einstein quote, "Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, indeed. If we think about, even what Brené Brown says, that shame cannot live in empathy. The way to get rid of our own shame is to share in a safe space, where we can receive empathy. Empathy will destroy the shame. It's that, it's changing that pattern, Because the pattern again, like for some odd reason as humans, our instinct, our pattern is to isolate when we are feeling the guilt, the shame, the grieving of any kind. Whether it's the grieving of a tiny little loss of Starbucks, not having our favorite tea anymore to a big, huge passing of dear family, and human's losses, and any type of difficult emotion. It's impossible, I would say, to resolve on our own. Yet, we isolate. The first thing we should do is not isolate.

Alex Cullimore: That's the way of looking at it. It is hard not to isolate. The reaction is, it's scary to be vulnerable. The reaction is, that it's hard to step out and have these, which is why it's hard to step into and get even, especially formal things like coaching, or therapy where you have contracted to help listen and to help be part of this. That's a huge step to reach out to do that because it is a lot of vulnerability to step into, and say, "Hey, I'm struggling with this." We worry about whatever that's going to mean to our image, to our status in this, which is also still threatening in our community. If we think our status is going to go down because we look like we're not able to deal with something or whatever it is, that's the same community threat can work against us as it's intended to help us.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. That's why choosing the right people or feeling more than choosing who you can actually share with and who can provide that safe space of non-judgment and non-rejection is one of the most important pieces, if not the most important piece. Which as you said, that's probably what then tends to drive the isolation, it's because we've been burnt in the past. So, we make assumptions that we'll be burned again, and it's hard to determine without having the experience of having shared. So, it's the chicken and the egg. If I don't share and I know that the space is safe, then I'm not sure I should share, because I don't know if the space is safe.

Alex Cullimore: That's a good analogy for it, and it is one that – this is where previous patterns can really influence us. Whether we had safe spaces growing up might keep us away from trying to find those safe spaces in adulthood. Even if we did have those spaces, there's a lot of reinforcement in places, like, I don't know, the corporate workplace where you don't get a lot of space, where it isn't intended to have this kind of. You are supposed to be, or sometimes at least inferred that you should be solving these things on your own, that you shouldn't be struggling with this. This is something that if you are struggling, go figure that out and come back to us when you're going to be productive. That's not helpful.

It helps us get back into boxes where we don't feel like we can approach those, we don't feel like we can take the space, we don't feel like we can be vulnerable. Which reinforces this pattern of, "Well, then. I shouldn't, and I'll go self-isolate," and that will come out in all kinds of negative ways. Then, we kind of get trapped in either a virtuous or a vicious cycle on that. We can either start to self-isolate, we can continue down that path, and we can get farther, and farther away, and find less and less community, finally detach, disengage, and leave the workplace, or just not engage while we are in it. Or we go the other way where we reach out, we might find some connections.

It might be that you're in a place that it isn't safe to do that, and it might be better to find a place too that is safe. But if you have found one that is safe, then using that, and leaning into the discomfort to go step into that might put us on a virtuous cycle, where suddenly, we have gotten space for ourselves. We're now processing enough on our own, that we can now reach out, provide space for other people, and the whole community can be benefited from that one initial vulnerability.

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. Unfortunately, a safe space can also become unsafe. Just because it's been safe for a while, one day it can turn unsafe. So then, we have to go through the same pattern of recognizing that it's not about us. And we now are going to have to find a new space or lean into other spaces that are still feeling safe with that element of risk, because we have seen one, or two, or three in our lifetime spaces that used to be safe, and then stopped being safe. Then, the judgment started showing up, stronger than the empathy that we needed in those moments.

Alex Cullimore: Due to the general human negativity bias and the fact that our brain is continually assessing risk and trying to save us from it. Even if it's only once or twice, are going to stand out and be fairly allowed in our memories. If we are not taking the time to process the times that those go and become unsafe, or trying to dissociate – detach, not dissociate, detach from those times, and realize, "Hey, that was then. This is now. I'm willing to try again." That's really, really hard to do because our brains are programmed to say, "Hey, that really hurt last time. Let's be careful not to step in that again." It makes sense. It's helpful to have these survival instincts and they can misfire.

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. Yes, definitely. If we look at some ways to find those spaces, we've talked about a few of them. Coaching is a big one, which shockingly enough, we're big fans of. But I find it very energizing about coaching, as a receiver and a giver, as a coach and a client. Is that, I started to notice a similar pattern that happens in a coaching engagement as a client and as a coach, so both ways.

The beginning, like the biggest step is to actually decide to choose to get into a coaching engagement, to ask for coaching, to look for a coach, to actually start. That is probably one of the biggest pieces of where all that internal turmoil of shame and imposter syndrome, and "I'm not good enough. Why do I need coaching and judging?" Self-judgment, and potential outside judgment, like, "What's wrong with you that you need coaching?" Any of those things, especially in the workplace where coaching hasn't – I guess, the new coaching hasn't really become part of the culture. Not coaching as, "Oh, you need performance improvement," but coaching as, well, something that we all need because we're humans. We just all need help at some point to be better humans, to be better leaders, to be better employees, to be better peers, and teammates.

It's just like sports athletes work with coaches eight to 12 hours a day. The same thing needs to be happening in the workplace. It's no difference than that. The beginning is the hardest part. Once you choose, typically at the beginning of the first session, or even the entire first session, you're testing the waters because you're trying to figure out like, "Is the space safe? How much can I show here?" There's confidentiality, there's rules, and all these things, but that's not enough. Like, I have to feel that this is a safe space.

Once that feeling is possible and starts happening, then you start seeing this pattern, I think in future sessions where there's an automatic opening, it's almost like a switch. The minute the coaching session starts, there's a new persona coming in. That new persona is, I can say anything, I can share anything, I can ask questions without expecting an answer because it's not about the answer. It's just about having the space to process. In a coaching engagement, you start learning that you're not going to get the answer anyway because you're going to get a question back. That's part of that.

Energy, I've seen energy really shifts by three, four, five, six sessions. You now have a transformed person showing up, because of that space that allowed for the openness, for the darkness to really start dropping, and for that isolation feeling to kind of melt away. Because even just with a coach, you're no longer in isolation. Even if that's the only person you end up talking to and opening up to, you're not alone.

Alex Cullimore: There's a light on the shame, there's empathy on the shame, and that shame can't live there in that time. It really does blend itself well to like a cleaning metaphor of shining light on something that needs to be cleaned out, and you can take the time to do it. This is why coaching or therapy, or honestly, any of these, any space giving, or space taking measures are helpful for cleaning out what we might start to neglect. Because in the same way, we have mental default patterns. We can get into practices of helping ourselves, we can do a lot to clean out a lot of things, we can recognize patterns, we can get better at continually holding and cleaning, cleaning out our mind in the clutter that we end up in certain ways.

But until we have some of those challenges and some of those spaces that allow us to confront the other areas that we might not always go to, we probably won't go over there and clean out this certain corner or find this back part of our brain where we just keep stuffing things in a closet. Over time, naturally, just in experiences, we will continue to put things in there. At some point, that will start to feel like it needs to overflow, and having space in those moments is incredibly helpful. It's not an indication that there's something wrong with you. Just, you're experiencing life. Life will inevitably create clutter for you. If you have such a blessed life that you haven't had that, I don't know how you did that.

I don't think that's even necessarily a good thing to have so little that has happened that you don't feel like there's clutter building up. Then, maybe you're not. This isn't about finding some end state. This is just about processing the parts of being alive that necessarily create mental clutter that needs some space to clear out. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, exactly. As you were explaining that, I had this image in my mind. I always have images in my mind, whether they're real or not. Most are not. Talk about clutter. But this image in my mind, trying to see outside of a window that's so dirty, inside, and outside, that you can't actually see clearly. So, you clean the window inside, that's your journal, that's your meditation, that's you're going for walks, that's all the self-care that you do on your own without being in some sort of space and community with somebody else, and connection. Without the human connection with somebody else. Thinking that's as clean as it gets.

Then, you get into these spaces, whether it's a group coaching, or group just sharing meeting, whether it's therapy, one-on-one coaching, all these other spaces where you're sharing with somebody else, you're getting it out, it's not just with you. That community, that otherness, starts cleaning the window on the outside. That's when you start realizing like, "Oh, wait, I wasn't seeing completely clearly. Now, I can see the difference."

When you keep doing that work and you're leaning to that type of space, really, to whenever you need it, then you realize like, look at all the sunlight that was not coming in, and just like vitamin D is needed that was healing, that was helping me process, that was helping me come up with new ideas, innovate, be creative, be my best self. Because now, my entire room, my entire self is actually visible because all the light is coming in.

As we live through life, the windows just like real windows are going to get dirtier, and dirtier, and dirtier. We have to do both of the work, we have to figure out like, "Is this an inside cleaning or an outside cleaning moment?" But both will have to happen.

Alex Cullimore: I really like that metaphor, especially the last part you talk about where it just, it will slowly get dirty again over time because that tends to be how it will build up. It tends to be a little bit slow. At first, we're like, "Well, that's not a big deal. We don't have to deal with that right now, because there's still a lot of sunlight going in. I have other windows I need to clean." But over time, you start to realize, especially if you do this practice again and again, you'll start to be a little bit more aware of the times where you're like, "Hey, it's a little dark in here. This is starting to get a little bit dirtier than I expected." So, you can catch that before, it becomes so caked in that you feel like you're in a cave. 

That's the other metaphor we love to use is getting all the way into a cave, so it does let itself to the darkness of that as well. That's definitely a good example of, over time it's just going to build up that's natural in life. The dust of life will build up on one side and the other, and helping yourself identify, as well as clear out that, it's just part of general maintenance. You don't expect something to set to build a house and to have it be perfect and stay forever. You expect to have to do maintenance. You expect that that's just part of the gig.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, indeed. 

Alex Cullimore: And we are no exception.

Cristina Amigoni: No, we're no exception. That's why we do our own work as much as we help others, because our own windows get dirty all the time, and that's the work that needs to be done, and recognizing what's needed at the moment. You can keep cleaning the inside of the window and still look at it and be like, "I still can't see," and then have to realize, "Oh, it's the outside." The outside, I can't do. For the outside, I actually need to reach out to somebody else and have that space.

From a workplace perspective, we bring the coaching approach and the coaching mindset into everything we do, all the engagements we do with clients. A lot of that is, when it comes down to answering the questions, what do you do as we provide space? We don't give answers necessarily. We can and we have opinions. We always have opinions, but that's not our –

Alex Cullimore: Many opinions.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, many opinions. Most of them we keep to ourselves, but we provide the space. I was actually just in, last week, I was in a couple of meetings with a big number of people, like 10, 12, 15 people. They had questions, but what was interesting is that they were not there for me to answer the questions. First of all, I didn't have the answers. I had some on all of them, but it wasn't about actually getting an answer to the questions. All of them had questions over, and over, and over.

But the fascinating piece was that because of the space they felt safe in, to actually just released what was in their hearts, what was in their mind, what they hadn't felt, maybe. That they could have released in this type of way with each other to validate that it wasn't just them, but everybody else in the room having the same experience. Somebody would ask a question, and then three hands would raise to either provide more questions, or answer it, or not even answer. I don't think anybody answered a single question. I think they all just needed to get their stuff out and stop letting it fester. 

At the end of the call, that was it. There wasn't any action needed. It wasn't about action. It wasn't about like, "Oh, let's get to work. What are you going to do? Where's the task list? What can we check off?" It wasn't about that. It was just about releasing, and processing, and being validated, and acknowledged in the processing with no real, "Okay, we're okay with not having

answers. We just needed to get it out."

Alex Cullimore: I think that's a really important distinction that people might struggle with. Because it's hard to be if you haven't tried something like coaching or therapy, and if you haven't experienced this, it bites on frustrating to hear things like, "Oh, we're not here to provide answers. We're here to provide the questions." That can be like, "Well, I'm looking for answers, so that doesn't feel like it helps." I totally understand. I get why that would feel like that's not going to be a helpful approach. It is that space that allows you to get rid of all of those meta feelings, all the shame that's holding you back from taking some kind of action, because it really is about cleaning that window. You'll be the one to decide when you're going to sit in the sunlight, or what you're going to do with that sunlight that's coming in.

You already probably know what you'd like to do. You just need help cleaning that off. That process is exactly what you just described, where it's not actually – we have a lot of questions, we think we want the answers to those questions, and we will find those. But almost, never. I don't think I've ever seen a successful time where somebody on the outside was able to provide that answer. There's only, yes, sure, like a very specific logistical question other people might know. That's never what's actually blocking people. If it is, it's because the relationship is so much that they can't ask that question or whatever the actual block is. 

So, helping with that is the space, that's what releases. It can sound weird if you haven't experienced it. It can sound odd until you have been really viscerally in this space. It feels like it's an unanswered, it feels like it's not action. It is the only thing that we know of that can actually release the blocks to get you to the action that you wanted in the first place. It's not about it defining the action. It's about you getting everything else out of the waste. You actually take the action. I haven't met anybody who actually is incapable of taking the action. They just need the other obstacles cleared. A ton of those are in our head.

Cristina Amigoni: Exactly, like it's not about what you choose to do when the sunlight comes in. It's about knowing that the sunlight exists. You can't take actions if you're in darkness. So, let's clean the windows, and then you decide what action you want to take once you can see clearly. 

Alex Cullimore: If you've listened to your thoughts enough, you probably know that you already have an answer. You probably have something already built up in your head of like, well, I would totally do this. If it weren't for this, if I had the ability to do that, I would do this. And it's not that there aren't some blocks out there that you have to go work on and you have to figure out how to structure so you can get to that, whatever that goal is. But the chances are, you already know and you just need the space for that to be an answer that is acceptable, and for that to be the answer that you take.

Definitely, in my experience, and in the people that I've talked to, and the people that I've coached, the answers are there, and they feel like epiphany sometimes. I've never provided an epiphany for somebody in all the coaching. I can't look in and be like, "Actually, here's what would help you" and people are like, "What?" No, they already know what the experience is. I can try and provide examples. I could try and provide space. I can provide suggestions if asked because I don't know the context, and they do know the context. It's going to be, at best, a semi-close fit, and it might help them frame this a little bit for themselves. But ultimately, the perfect crystal-clear answer that fits them comes from within, every single time.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. At best, you could provide resistance, maybe, or enough drive to realize, oh, that's definitely not the answer. So now, the answer is becoming clearer because I've eliminated something that's definitely not the answer. Providing the answer, that's the way to go. No, that's not going to happen.

Alex Cullimore: That's also one list that I think a lot of coaches have, and I assume, therapists have a hard time with originally if they feel like they need to provide a frame or provide an answer. It could feel, just because this is how, maybe it's cultural, maybe it's just human. But when we suggest something and people are like, "No, that's not quite it, then we feel like either we were wrong or we feel frustrated, they're not listening to us. It takes a little bit of practice to get into the space of, "Okay, I'm happy to provide a suggestion." My assumption is, what I'm going to give you is an imperfect frame, and that's going to give you some edges that you're going to see, "That doesn't quite fit what I was expecting. That isn't quite what I wanted, actually. "Okay, no, I appreciate that." Because now, I can bounce off of that frame and say, "Actually, it looks a little bit more like this," and letting go of the personal need to be right in your frame is super important if you're going to be giving space, and giving those suggestions literally as, "I'm just going to give you some parameters of things that I would maybe think about, and maybe it'll help you brainstorm. But you don't have to take these as gold because it's not your context."

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. I would say that the top two requirements, well, I don't know if I've come up with two, maybe three. The top three requirements and there's sure probably more, for providing true psychologically safe, useful, effective, constructive, innovative window cleaning space are non-judgment. So, there can't be any judgment in it. If you're walking in with judgment and wanting to prove your point when you're providing space for somebody else, you might as well not do it, because it's only going to cause harm. That's one. I already forgot the other two. Let me see if I can remember them.

Alex Cullimore: That one is, I think, by far the most important because we are so attuned to judgments that we, even if it's a hint of it, if it's a slight tone change. We are so ready to take that and to understand that as like, "Oh, okay. Now, this person thinks this way about me or this." Not everybody's going to react to that or have it influence them too much, but that will change the amount they're willing to put into a space. So, that judgment and staying curious, and open, and keeping that space, and holding the space open, and showing that there's more space out there. That's a really important end of the spectrum and anything that is more judgmental starts to close off that space. Whether we react to it immediately or not, it does limit the space created.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Now, I remember the other two. Well, I remember the next one, then we'll see. The second one is knowing that when you are providing space, and also recognizing when that space is needed, that it's not about action. So, it's not about coming, walking away with a to-do list. It's not about how much we can move and do. It is truly just about processing, process what's happening, process what you're feeling, process what you're thinking, go through all of that, unpack, peel the onions. It is processing. Will it inspire action? Most likely. Could it possibly turn into, "Oh, I know what action I want to take in the next week"? Definitely possible. Is it a requirement for every single session? No. No should be, and neither should be an expectation.

Providing space, it's a big thing to recognize when that's needed and also step away from the checklist. It's not about action. Action does not equal result. Action just means, just equals movement. Movement doesn't mean you're actually going anywhere. You're just moving and wasting energy.

Alex Cullimore: You could be treading water or you could be swimming. It might clear enough that you start swimming. It also might just do a little bit, and you'll start to tread water, and you'll start to wonder what's next. That's fine too. Then, there's more space to figure out whether you want this direction, what direction you're going to start taking. It will eventually probably move to action, not because you're pushing it to there, but because you're giving this space to get rid of everything that would stop you from taking action otherwise. People generally want to move and change the things they want to move and change.

We always talk about like the easy examples, of course, things like getting more fit. Everybody's like, "Yes, I want to exercise more." That's great, but everybody knows what that takes. You go to the gym and go work out, and if you do that consistently for a long time, you start to feel more fit. Everybody knows that's what it takes. Nobody needs to be pushed to go to the gym. They need to remove the things that are stopping them from going to the gym.

The worries about like, "Oh, I can't spend this much time away from home." The

worries of, "Oh, I don't know what people are going to think about me when I'm there and I can't lift as much weight as the next person" or whatever. Whatever is stopping you, whatever the worries are, those are what you work on and you unpack, because that's what's really stopping you from getting in the car and going to the gym. Of course, there's occasional days where it's too busy. There's occasional weeks where life gets too busy. You don't generally go to coaching, or misunderstand, or easy to see like, "Okay, this one really got away from me." But if it goes away enough weeks in a row, maybe there's something we're just missing. There's some shame that's stopping us. That's where this unpacking is incredibly helpful.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Shaming somebody to go to the gym is also not going

to work.

Alex Cullimore: That's judgment. That's judgment right away. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, it goes back to number one. No judgment. The third one, I can't remember, so it's gone.

Alex Cullimore: The third one is the ethereal one that you will find as you enter the space. 

Cristina Amigoni: For the third one, I actually need space to think. But the third one was very important too, so go figure it out, and let us know what it is.

Alex Cullimore: I didn't know we were going to have a cliffhanger ending, but we have a cliffhanger ending.

Cristina Amigoni: It's gone. It's not coming back. We probably covered it in the first two.

Alex Cullimore: It's a summary. Imagine the perfect summary of the things that we just didn't quite cover in the first two, and that's number three. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Actually, I got the third one. See, we just need to talk about other things. Release. I just need to release so that I can find the space to come in. The third one is something that you talked about. It's like, it's not about our opinion, which just goes back to judgment. It's not in our opinion also usually drives to action because we're getting impatient about no action. But it's really about, if we do provide advice, we cannot be attached to that. It is just that. It's just advice to keep the unpacking going, to allow for the space to still feel like there's more to process. But we have to completely release our attachment to whatever we provide as advice, if we are asked and we have the invitation to provide it.

Alex Cullimore: Summed up in the two words that we were taught a few times in the coaching program, and I've seen a few other places. Detached involvement is the idea of being involved and wanting the best for the person while being detached from the outcomes, and knowing that you can't influence those and that you aren't there to push that person into action. You were there to be involved, be supportive, create the space, and they will move, but you have to be attached from that, and not feel like as – if I haven't driven them to something, and made sure they got in their car by the end of this hour session, I've done something wrong. That's where you can absolutely get yourself into trouble and start to push in your own opinions, and feel a little frustrated when they aren't taken, and then start to close in that space.

It's something you can start to feel out as you get more practiced at it, but when that space starts to close, then we get back into our old habits. We get back into the dirty windows, we aren't removing the blocks, we aren't removing the dirt from the sun.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, exactly. All right. Go create space or find somebody that will create it for you, even if it's Star Trek.

Alex Cullimore: Even if it's Star Trek. The second final frontier.

Cristina Amigoni: The second final frontier, yes. Enjoy. Thanks for listening.

Alex Cullimore: Thanks for listening. 

[OUTRO]

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you for listening to Uncover the Human, a Siamo podcast. 

Alex Cullimore: Special thanks to our podcast operations wizard, Jake Lara; and our score creator, Raechel Sherwood. 

Cristina Amigoni: If you have enjoyed this episode, please share, review, and subscribe. You can find our episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. 

Alex Cullimore: We would love to hear from you with feedback, topic ideas, or questions. You can reach us at podcast@wearesiamo.com, or at our website, wearesiamo.com, LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook. We Are Siamo is spelled W-E A-R-E S-I-A-M-O.

Cristina Amigoni: Until next time, listen to yourself, listen to others, and always uncover the human.

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