Finding Balance: Small Steps to a More Centered Life with Katherine Warren

Katherine Warren: This is not all or nothing. This is not a rigid, or structured way of being. This is a, if you have two minutes to close your eyes and focus on your breathing, start there.

Alex Cullimore: Welcome to Uncover the Human, where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives.

Cristina Amigoni: Whether that’s with our families, co-workers, or even ourselves.

Alex Cullimore: When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.

Cristina Amigoni: This is Cristina Amigoni.

Alex Cullimore: And this is Alex Cullimore.

BOTH: Let's dive in.

Authenticity means freedom.

Authenticity means going with your gut.

Authenticity is bringing a 100% of yourself. Not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you.

Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself

It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep-rooted and true

Authenticity is when you truly know yourself. You remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be.

It's transparency, relatability, no frills, no makeup, just being.

[EPISODE]

Alex Cullimore: Arguably, this is now a blooper, because it's no longer our format of greeting, but to back us into that. Hello.

Cristina Amigoni: Hello.

Alex Cullimore: We just had this conversation with someone we've worked with for a while, in a lot of different capacities, but finally got to talk to a little bit more individually and in what she's especially interested in being and sharing. That is Katherine Warren from KidGlov. KidGlov is the marketing agency that's helped us a bunch. Great at doing exactly what their mission says, which is putting a megaphone in front of good people, so being able to really spread great messages. 

Katherine works obviously heavily in that, as well as on her own Balance and Rise brand, which is talking about some of the more holistic wellness that comes with finding balance in life and how one does that. We were just talking before we actually remembered to push record about how being with Katherine is this – she has an incredibly level energy. Just very even, very balanced, and in a way that is strong enough you end up feeling more balanced in just the audience of this.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah. She really manifests balance. She is the living form of balance. If you were to take this word out of the dictionary and put it into a person, that's Katherine. There's just a very peaceful energy and she talks about how it is a journey and it is daily practice and a minute-by-minute practice and it never stops. You never get to the balance trophy and now you're balanced for the rest of your life.

Alex Cullimore: You’re now the most balanced.

Cristina Amigoni: But it was something that she did. Yeah. It was something that she got to by having to battle with insomnia and depression and having to find a way out of that.

Alex Cullimore: That's an incredibly interesting story, but she's also very succinct and balanced in how she discusses it. I felt very approachable ways to go find some balance for yourself and start to start that journey without feeling like you have to immediately jump into a five-week silent retreat and then follow that up with nine months of meditation training all while becoming the most balanced of the –

Cristina Amigoni: In India with Buddha.

Alex Cullimore: - closer you’ve ever. Yes.

Cristina Amigoni: Speaking of monks.

Alex Cullimore: Yes. She found a very approachable way of doing these and it's a lot to glean. I hope you guys feel as level and rested as I feel coming out of this one.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, exactly. Just watch out for the very salty snacks that Alex used to eat during the pandemic.

Alex Cullimore: I would recommend still. So tasty. I just would not recommend the amount that I might ingest.

Cristina Amigoni: Maybe not the cost of some of something as big.

Alex Cullimore: I would rather not talk about how many large containers of salted peanut butter filled pretzels were found in our cycling at some point.

Cristina Amigoni: Maybe, yeah, keep balance in mind when buying those and eating those.

Alex Cullimore: I was listening to a part of my body, and then other parts started screaming, but that's all right.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. Enjoy the conversation with Katherine.

Alex Cullimore: Enjoy.

[EPISODE]

Alex Cullimore: Welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human. Today, we are joined with our guest, Katherine Warren. Welcome to the podcast, Katherine.

Katherine Warren: Thank you for having me.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, welcome.

Alex Cullimore: We're very excited to have you. We talked about, I think, I don't know, when we started talking about this, Cristina, like a year ago, we were like, “You know what who would be good on this? Katherine.” Then we finally got around to, “Katherine, please come on.” We know you from a few things, Katherine, but maybe for the audience sake, give us a little bit of your story. What's your background? What brought you here?

Katherine Warren: Yeah, absolutely. I am a seeker and pursuer of balance. My life's mission has become to share what I've used in my life, the tools that I've used to create balance throughout my life with others. I'm just looking to share as much as I can with people. I do that in two ways. I do that as the Chief Operating Officer of KidGlov. KidGlov is a marketing agency that specializes in change makers and those that are here doing good in the world. We get to say that we put a megaphone in front of those that are doing good in the world and help them spread their very important messages very much in the nonprofit sector. We work with a lot of social impact agencies. That's where I specialize is in that public and behavioral health, a lot of prevention work, a lot of mental health work, a lot of important messages that need to get out in the world.

Along with that, I run a website called Balance and Rise, where I share my personal story of overcoming, or working through a 20-plus year battle with depression and insomnia, and the tools that I've used to overcome that and start living this life, that at one point in my life, I would have never even known was possible. A big piece of that toolkit for me is mindfulness. That's the first step on my journey that really helped me understand that you don't have to react to your thoughts. You don't have to. You run by them. I had chronic insomnia. That's how my depression showed up days, weeks without sleeping. Mindfulness was a big piece of the puzzle to helping me through that.

Of course, once you start getting a little healthier, things come around for you, right? That really sparked my desire to exercise, to eat a little healthier, to gain knowledge about what it feels like to have a more balanced life, to surround myself with healthier people and healthier practices. It all just spirals from there. The cool thing is I get to share that on my website, but I also get to share it with my team at KidGlov, or anyone I manage or speak to, so I feel like I just have all these arms, these tentacles of ways that I can do some outreach.

I also founded the largest community yoga offering in Lincoln, Nebraska as part of my teacher training community service. Yet, another arm, right? Where you can expose people to these practices that I've found such tremendous gifts from in my own life. It's certainly not for everyone. But for those that it is, I just want to have as many angles as possible for people to be exposed to it. The community yoga, for example, is a free public outside in nature, zero intimidation, way to experience yoga and mindfulness. Just things like that, that create a lot of arms in what I do every day. That was a very long answer.

Cristina Amigoni: It's good.

Alex Cullimore: No, that was great.

Katherine Warren: There's so much there.

Alex Cullimore: I do want to just highlight just to – because selfishly, we've enjoyed all of our work with KidGlov. Just to add a little extra plug there, you guys have an incredible team. They are actually responsible for a website update that we are in the middle of that we will hopefully, have out probably by the time this episode is out. We really appreciate all of that. That's how we ended up meeting you, Katherine, and all the other things that you do on the outside of that are such a – I can't recommend the blog enough. It's a wonderful place to go find a lot of resources. I like your idea of tentacles, just having all these angles that you can go help people from and finding that balance.

It sounds like there's also so many different aspects of that that you've started with mindfulness, but you talked about things like yoga, exercise, eating. Is it possible to be balanced without all of these things? Are these all a package deal?

Katherine Warren: That's a great question. In my opinion, the growth is in the practice, not in the outcome. Part of balance is coming in and out of balance, right? Maintaining that balance back and forth. There are going to be times in your life where you're going to prioritize one piece of balance, one pillar of balance over the other and vice versa. Then you're going to have something happen, I like to call it listening to the whispers in your body. Your body is going to whisper before it screams at you, whether that's something physical, or mental, or burnout, or otherwise, right? You're going to start to hear those whispers.

I think, those are the times when you really need to dive deep in all the tools to help you get back to balance. But I think it's unrealistic and it's very much a part of balance to think, “Hey, this is not going to go perfect all the time. I'm going to be really solid on my sleep for a while. Maybe my eating's not as strong as it was or, hey, I'm deep into my mindfulness practice. My work life is becoming a priority right now and cutting out some of that mindfulness time.” I think it's always the coming out of balance and coming back into balance, I think, that's where truly that great growth happens for you, that transformational, “Okay, now I can take this to the next level and the next level.”

To answer your question, no. I don't think you need all of it. But I think you need to be actively engaged in your mind and body enough to know when you need to press the gas on those tools, or when you have time that you can let off a little bit.

Cristina Amigoni: That's a great image. There's a million things I want to impact just from that. That's even without considering everything you shared before. I love the growth is in the practice, not the outcome. We talk about that quite a bit in different contexts on the podcast, because there is this almost obsession and expectations that it's all about getting to the finish line and then somehow a miracle happens. We're now eternally balanced, or eternally happy, or eternally fulfilled, or eternally whatever we're seeking. It's in that one thing and it really isn't, because it's in the journey there and back.

I was actually texting this morning with a friend, how sometimes it feels like it's a cha-cha. It's like, it's one step forward, two steps back, and now we're going in again. It's almost hard to get to the point of saying, congratulations, or what an achievement, because I'm like, “Well, but I'm not there yet.” There is no there to get to. It's just constant practice. Some moments are better than others and then we start all over again.

Katherine Warren: I love your finish line reference, because there is no magic finish line to this. It is a lifetime practice. I would assume for most people that listen to podcasts such as yours, that goal post is going to move every time. You're going to hit it, it's going to feel good and then you're going to have something else that you want to do, or something else that you want to accomplish. Then you're going to slide back. That goal post, that finish line is going to slide back, or you're going to fall over and scrape your knee and you're going to need to work on that and process that and come back to whatever you're working on. It's a lifetime practice. There's no magic finish line. Even if there were, once you got there, you'd want to move it.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. That's true.

Alex Cullimore: I can't really say anything, but you guys are saying, I've just had a perfect upward trajectory that has always been just fine.

Cristina Amigoni: Looking at you from out there.

Alex Cullimore: It looks like more hill.

No, that makes sense. I mean, even just physically standing on one foot alone in a room that is entirely “steady,” you're never going to even hold still then. There's always something moving. There's always something that moves. You're going to have to have some amount of tension just to hold that very specific, almost “easy balance.” I like the metaphor of balance, because it is just a continual practice. I like that idea that if you do make that finish line, you're just going to create a new finish line. You're just going to create a new one, which is to say, it's never really a finish line. It's just a marker, maybe a milestone. Maybe just something that you felt glad to get to. Doesn't mean that it's the end of the journey.

Katherine Warren: It's important to celebrate that.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes. It is important to celebrate those. I think I find it easier to celebrate when you notice somebody else getting to a milestone than your own. Same friend that I’ve been texting, she's been going through some pretty big important balance work. I'm congratulating her. She's like, “But I'm not done.” I'm like, “But I'm congratulating your progress. I'm congratulating the fact that you haven't given up. You're doing it and it's hard. Most people wouldn't even want to do this stuff.”

Katherine Warren: Absolutely. I just started adding on a little bit to my practice about making sure I recognize my wins, especially when I'm in this build phase, right? Taking a minute at the end of the day, whatever that means for you. I say that, because I know if you're a mom of young kids, the end of the day might be 4.30 for work, because there's no way in heck you're doing this before bedtime. For me, I do it right before bed. But taking a minute to reflect on two to three wins of the day. That to me is a little bit different than gratitude, right? It's specific when you're in the build.

What are my two to three wins of the day? What are two to three wins I hope to accomplish tomorrow? This is not from me, by the way. This is from Dan Sullivan. But I'm really enjoying it. The two wins for tomorrow also helps you with mindfulness, because it helps get that to-do list out of your brain and on to something concrete, so you can enjoy your rest, enjoy your sleep, enjoy your book before bed, or however you wind down. It checks that off. “Okay, I know what my wins are going to be for tomorrow, what I hope to accomplish.” And helps you celebrate as a perfectionist who finds it hard to celebrate your own wins, helps you remember to do that. The coolest thing then is to look back a few days and go, “Oh, I did do that. Oh, yeah. I did do that. Oh, great. I did.” It helps.

Cristina Amigoni: I like that. I've been journaling three gratitudes every day for five years, I think, at this point. Yes, but it is different than the wins. I'm going to have to add the wins to my practice, because I usually do the gratitudes in the morning. I almost do them as a manifestation of yes, there's things that I am grateful right now that have happened, but also, what am I grateful that I want to see continue, perhaps, in the day? Yeah, the wins is a good perspective. Adding that to my list of bedtime routines.

Katherine Warren: I love that. Yeah. I, too, am a gratitude journaler in the morning. That also to me is very interesting to look back on. To recognize that typically what's on that gratitude list are not the achievements, right?

Cristina Amigoni: No, they're not. For me, they're the feelings. They're the emotions. I also noticed, I know a lot of people pick a word of the year. I think I might have done that in the past. I don't know. I've never intentionally paid a lot of attention to it. But if I had to look back to my gratitude, I would find with the words of the year were, because it's the word that I continuously use for gratefulness. I know last year I used a lot of hope. I would say, I'm grateful for hope multiple days. Then, so, those are the themes that would be interesting to go back and look at.

Katherine Warren: I love that.

Alex Cullimore: That's very cool. I like the practices. How do you help people who maybe are just starting on this journey? How do you help them identify what will be helpful to do? There's so many angles you can take.

Katherine Warren: That's my love language. I love sharing this with beginners and helping beginners understand that this is not all or nothing. This is not a rigid, or structured way of being. This is a, if you have two minutes to close your eyes and focus on your breathing, start there. If you have five minutes, go for a walk. Appreciate. Be in awe of a tree like you've never seen that tree before. Do that. That's key to me is taking the structure and the rigidity and sometimes the woo out of the practice and making it very sustainable for day-to-day life.

I talk a lot about factoring mindfulness into your transition times during the day, that that is very helpful. If you're at work, sit for two minutes in your car, shut off the radio, listen to what sounds are around you. If it's raining, bonus, right? You've got even more beautiful sounds to listen to. Or before you walk in your house in the evening. Any major transition in your day, it helps to check in and go, “Okay. Here I am. I'm present.”

What you might find from that is then when you are running in the house with your dogs, or your kids, or your significant other, that you're really with that person, that you have a more rich experience with that person, because you're dialed in, because you're present. I have to do that a lot with my team. A lot of times before I work with a team member at KidGlov, I will stop, take a few breaths, because the best thing I can be for them is the best coach/boss/whatever you want to call me I can be. If I can take two minutes before that interaction.

Again, the message is how you get started is to not take it so seriously, not be hard on yourself and make sure that you take baby steps towards the progress. Then, I'm very intentional with almost everything that I write, every blog that I write, everything that I do to say, I'm sharing what worked for me. The goal of balance is tuning into yourself enough so that you know what works for you, because what works for me is not going to work for you. But the tuning into your body to understand, A, what balance feels like, and B, how do you get more of it is something that you can use mindfulness to achieve. So, you can say, “Okay, I need to add more movement in my day.” Well, that could be a 10-mile run, or it could be a 10-minute walk. You have to be real with yourself and understand what really feels balanced and authentic to you in order to decide what that is and make it a sustainable piece of how you're living in the world.

Cristina Amigoni: I love the personalization of it, because it is very different depending on the person. Understanding that this is not the formula that like, you do this and you're going to find Nirvana.

Katherine Warren: Yeah. Yeah. All nothing is the antithesis of balance in my opinion.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, exactly.

Katherine Warren: All that does, have you end up shoulding all over yourself and, “Oh, I should do this. I should do that.” Whether it feels good or not, you just think you should do it. That's not balance. That's the antithesis of balance.

Cristina Amigoni: You said a couple of things earlier and it may be related to my question or not. But you talked about learning to listen to the whispers, which also in my mind, keeps me connected to how do I realize when I'm in balance? How do I know, I listen to the whispers, I listen to my body, I listen to my soul, I listen to my mind, and then how do I recognize like, oh, that's the moment. That's balance and that's what I want to seek for the next time, or that's what I'm looking for recreating.

Katherine Warren: That's a great question. I define balance as a feeling. Balance to me is I feel grounded. I feel solid. I feel comfortable in my skin, and I feel focused. I feel things are moving along at a pace that feels it could be exhausting, but it's going to be that energized exhaustion, or it could be light and easy, but it's going to be a focus light and easy. To me, it's a feeling of being grounded, solid, present, and in your skin and comfortable with where you're at. That to me is when I feel like, okay, I'm in this.

I'll tell you, that feeling showing up at work is especially wonderful, because I know from podcasts I've listened of yours before that you also don't subscribe to the 8 to 5, 40 hour a week mentality, right? I think when you're in that place of balance at work, especially, I can run circles in an hour. You know what I mean? If I'm focused and in it and in what I am doing, I think in that place, you can accomplish so much in so little time. That's another time when I know it's almost that flow feeling, not a lot of people talk about. Being in flow allows you to get a whole lot done, so that you can honor all your other practices that you need to stay in balance.

Alex Cullimore: It's a good call, too, because I think there's a lot of attachments to, I'm going to find balance so that I can be more productive. That is this weird outcome-based way of trying to achieve balance. I don't find that particularly helpful. It end up getting stuck to the outcomes. Then you end up in a lot of should, like, “Well, I should be focused enough to be able to do this. I haven't finished this, so I can't – I'm going to get back to that.”

It's not to say that it's not a huge benefit in productivity. You might absolutely feel like you can run those circles half those hours. But when we started to treat that as the outcome, we started to lose the fact that we were doing this to balance internally, to balance ourselves.

Katherine Warren: Right. Yeah. Because you want to find joy in your work. That doesn't mean you have to do something super cool. Even you just want to find joy in it. To me, joy means I'm doing what I want to be doing. I'm focused when I'm doing it, and I'm achieving an outcome that I can be proud of. I can do quality, focused work. I think that's what most people want out of where you're spending a whole lot of your hours of your day, right? Yes. To me, that's just the work side. Yes, it's that feeling of solid presence.

Cristina Amigoni: I like that. How do you, and we've talked about this offline as well, but how do you help create a culture, where that's not just you, Katherine, bring this because you do it on an everyday basis. But how do you help a team and a culture sustain that and foster that and grow that?

Katherine Warren: Yeah. I think trust is a huge piece of this. Balance needs trust in order to thrive in an organization. A, that starts with hiring people you could trust, and then making sure that you honor that trust throughout your relationship with each other. I think that's a huge key to balance. I think giving people a safety net, I call it a soft place to land, to go out of balance, come back in balance, go out of balance, but still be a very productive part of the team. I think that's a huge place. That psychological safety at work, I think, is a huge piece of creating this at work also.

Then as a leader, I think it is incredibly important for you to manage your team based on their preferences that provide balance for them. For example, a lot of leaders in the world, perhaps, would like their team to cater to their preferences. I'm a phone person. If you need something, call me. Or, I don't want you to talk to me after 2 p.m., or whatever the case may be, right? I think it's the opposite. I think for every person you manage, you need to say, “Okay. How does this person need me to show up for them, so that they can be their balanced and best and focused at work?”

I may love a phone call, but I may have a younger team member who gets a lot of anxiety from me picking up the phone and calling them, or me saying, “Hey, could you call me when you get a sec?” As opposed to working in the ways that create balance for them. Maybe they want a text. I do have several team members, I will send a message to and say, “Hey, I need to call you. It's no big deal. Is that okay? Can I?” Just to make sure I'm setting them up for success.

I think that translates also to, you may have a team member that's going to feel abandoned if you don't check in with them every day. I have another team member that says, “Can you just leave me alone and let me do my work?” I think that creates a lot of balance and culture is being the leader that understands how each of your team members needs balance in their life and honoring that in the way that you lead.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, I love that. I can already hear the peanut gallery complaining about that and saying like, “I can't possibly show up differently for 400 people that report to me.” Like, well, the first problem, you shouldn't have 400 people reporting to you. That speaks that. Also, yes, you can, because you show up differently for each of your kids and each of your friends and each of – you show up differently for the Starbucks barista, versus your mom.

Katherine Warren: Yeah, absolutely. If you're leading a team of 400, then you better find six of them that you can make great leaders to help cater to X percent of that group. Yeah, that would be step one [inaudible 0:25:49] in your own work life.

Cristina Amigoni: Find that balance in numbers.

Katherine Warren: Yes.

Alex Cullimore: What would you recommend as far as getting to know those, those preferences for people? How do you assess those out? How do you learn the ways to approach them?

Katherine Warren: You know what? I think you need to create balance in yourself, so that you're able to have emotional intelligence and tune into their needs. You can ask, too. I think if you, leader, in a place of balanced focus, you're going to know those cues just naturally. It may come a little bit more naturally to me, because I'm a discerner, but I do think most people could pick it up just by being focused in present and conversations with their team. And not thinking about what your next thing is on your calendar.

Alex Cullimore: That's about all back to the idea of the presence, being present for it, being focused for it.

Katherine Warren: Yup.

Alex Cullimore: Makes sense. Then, when you get into those positions where you're now, you have – even if it's not 400 people, but it's enough people that you feel you're responding to it and you start to lose the balance for yourself, what are good ways to re-center your own balance and remember that maybe this is also a priority, even as you try and help all the people that you are leading?

Katherine Warren: Yeah. I think you always have to check in with your purpose. That helps me a lot. What are the biggest needle movers for you in your journey towards balance and how you want to show up in the world? For me, I want to be the absolute best coach I can be. My bucket is filled when I can celebrate wins with my team. If I'm having a frantic day, or an unfocused day, or whatever the case may be, it's the reminding yourself like, what am I doing? Why am I here? If I'm just sitting here spinning and spiraling, I'm doing no one, including myself any favor, so I better go do something that's in my toolkit to get myself back to a place of balance. Whether that's a genuine rest day, which is such a challenge for people and our cultures and our communities.

Or even if it's a, “Hey, I got to start this meeting five minutes late. Sorry. I need to go walk around my backyard and come back.” Just remembering that showing up burnt out does no one any favors. And making sure that when you do show up, it's of value, because you're taking care of yourself to create that balance in yourself and in the culture.

Cristina Amigoni: Sometimes it feels like, when you are out of balance, it makes it more challenging to remember what your tools are to get back into balance, because you're swirling. You're in this chaos that seems like it's never going to end. How do you find that? How do you stop long enough when you're in that storm to figure out like, these are my pillars; I need to go back to those and they do help and this is not hopeless spinning?

Katherine Warren: Yeah. I think stuff want us to be easy on yourself and know that it's going to take time. Especially when you're in a serious spiral. Like, I might be in it for a week before I go, “I write about this stuff. Why am I spiraling?” A, I know everything takes time and take it easy on yourself. Again, B, what's the teeniest, tiniest little thing I can do in my toolkit today to create just an ounce of where I'm hoping to head? Then three, I actually create a list in my phone of things that bring me joy and things that are truly restful, that I can go back to and look at any time I'm like, I'm dancing around and loving this. This must be something that really relaxes me. I'm going to add it to the list, so that I have that list to reference, because it's easy to want to go into something that when you're spiraling, that numbs, but doesn't necessarily make you feel rested, or balanced. That's a very different feeling, right?

That's when having those lists helps a lot to be like, “Wait a second. This isn't on my list. Oh, I'm sitting here. You know, what do they call it? Stress-laxing. I'm not relaxing. I'm stress-laxing.” I’m numb-making, right?” It's nice to have those lists for reference. Or, I would think even your gratitude list would be a great list to go back to, or your wins list, because those are the things that are bringing you that piece and that focus and that joy.

Alex Cullimore: A friend of ours would refer to that as a dopa menu, like the dopamine, but a list of options and sorted into appetizers where you can get something that takes less effort and you can get some out of. Then the things that you get a lot of release, or relaxation or whatever, actual purpose with rest, and the larger entrees, the things that, yeah, maybe going out of vacation is one of those, but you can't do that right now in this middle of this spiral. That's when you have planned later. What are the other options that are just, for lack of a better term, affordable at that time in just time, or energy?

Katherine Warren: I love that. I love the entree menu, especially. I love that.

Cristina Amigoni: How much do you find that? Because I have certain practices, gratitude journaling is one of them. The other one that I've been doing for 2025, yeah, almost five years straight now is meditation. So, daily meditation. One of the ways that I found myself, and it's interesting for the meditation, because I find myself increasing my meditation time before I'm even realizing I'm out of balance. It's almost like, I'm naturally going to my toolkit. Then it's almost an afterthought, like after a week or two, and it's happened in the last couple of months, especially the last month is I realized after a week or two, I'm like, “Wait, I used to meditate for 20 minutes a day. Now I meditate for an hour and 20 minutes a day.” I just automatically know I need to go do that. Then afterwards, I'm like, oh, I must be out of balance. I must be trying to get back into balance. What are some other things that you found in the daily of if you do this every day, you just know that's your tool to go to?

Katherine Warren: I think that was a beautiful example of listening to your whispers and you didn't even know you're doing it. You know what I mean? When you're at that place in your life of balance, you will instinctively, I think it comes down to the food you eat sometimes. Are you craving sugar? Are you craving salt? All of that, right? Your body is telling you what it needs. You're tuned in enough to be listening to it, which I think is great, right? I think that when you are in a space of needing to know, you need to know you're out of balance tendencies in order to understand when you need to double down on them.

For me, it's sleep. If my sleep is disrupted, because of my past with insomnia, I know, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not sleeping good. I better slow down, or get more serious about my meditation.” Or maybe it's a morning five-minute sit and an evening five-minute sit, where normally I would just do a morning, or I better hit up that yoga class this week for sure. I think it's, again, understanding the tools that you use when you're not in balance as much as you do understand the tools that you use when you are in balance. Sleep is a huge one for me, but I think translate to a lot of different things, right?

Are you scrolling on social media twice as long as you normally do? Is TV truly restful for you, or watching TV to numb and not relaxing at all, but just sitting there and thinking about all the things you should be doing.

Cristina Amigoni: That's a good numb. I'm trying to think of what I noticed that was out of balance to put me back into balance automatically. I have no idea. There's something for sure.

Katherine Warren: Sometimes even, and I'm not going to take credit for this. Either this came from a therapist. Sometimes even thinking about the next achievement, or starting an achievement can be out of balance practice, instead of an in-balance practice, right? Because you're looking to numb something else through your next goal post.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It's the opposite of mindfulness. You're now in the future, as opposed to realizing what's happening in the present.

Katherine Warren: Absolutely. Yeah.

Alex Cullimore: That one is particularly interesting, because we have such a culture of trying to have achievements, goals, milestones, whatever for you. We want to hit this. We almost tried to encode the arrival fallacy into our DNA about like, “Well, I'll be happy when I get there. I'll be happy when I get there. I’ll be happy when I get there.” There's a attention then between finding your balance, finding some of yourself, as well as the natural human tendency to move towards, continue moving for one, but also move towards growth. You're like, we're building something, accomplishing something. How do you help yourself figure out what goals are worth pursuing? What are the ones that aren't the numbing achievements?

Katherine Warren: Yeah, that's a great question. I think, again, it goes down to how do you feel when you're pursuing that achievement? What's the feeling? If you can tune into the feeling, you will know whether that's an ego-driven feeling, or a burnout-driven goal, or if it's a goal that is, again, giving you that solid, focused, present feeling that says, okay, this is one to pay attention to. This is one to give my energy to, right? Because to your point, going, going, going, going, well, guess what? Never leaves you. Your brain. You can't outrun your brain, you can't scale. Your brain is always going to be there, no matter what. Unless, and until you get real clear on when that feels good and when that doesn't feel good, I think you can still achieve a lot, but it's going to be a whole lot more painful and a whole lot less meaningful in the end, if that makes sense, right?

I always say to people, if they're like, say, for example, on a weight loss journey. It's like, well, focus on your mental health first. Because otherwise, that journey can happen, but it sure is going to be a lot harder and a lot less sustainable, because there's a reason that you're doing things that take your weight out of balance, right? Got to focus on the mental health first, always.

Alex Cullimore: It's unlikely to be sustainable, and it's likely to be unsatisfactory, if you do, even if you do meet the stated goal.

Katherine Warren: Because your brain's still there. So, it's there, no matter what.

Cristina Amigoni: Sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but it is.

Katherine Warren: Yeah.

Cristina Amigoni: I'm going to steal a question from one of the many podcasts I listened to this weekend. I can't remember which one. Pretty sure it was one of the ones with Simon Sinek. What's the role of other people, so of our connections to other humans, which is something that we can't outrun, just like the brain, we need it as well. It's not just it's around us, but we also need for survival connections, deep connections with other people. What's the role of the community of those connections into finding our balance and maintaining our balance, or refinding balance when we're out of balance?

Katherine Warren: That is a great question. Again, I think it's tuning into those internal cues when you're in those communities. What does this feel like? Does it feel exciting and energizing? Do I walk away from here, excited to go do the next thing? Or do I walk away from here and needing a nap? Do more of the things with the community that lights you up and do less of the things with the community that makes you want to go take it out, right? I think that's a key piece of that.

For me, with the whole pandemic and a lot of things coming into your home, a lot of my exercise routines came into my home, but the one thing that never felt quite right in the home was yoga. I need the value of community in a yoga studio was not something I could replicate at home. I kept trying and trying and why am I not getting this from this? Then I found a studio again that felt really good after the pandemic. I'm like, “Oh, okay. This. This is what I was seeking.” Again, I think it's just tuning into the feeling around the community and finding more of that, because you know, study after study that you were not meant to live this life alone. It doesn't feel good to – you need people, you need community, but you need to honor the value of the community that you're around. That's not to judge one or the other at all, but it's just what fits and feels right to you.

Alex Cullimore: Makes sense. I like that as a continuing north star, just returning back to what feels lie, and intuitively, you're moving in the right direction, or not the right direction, or pulling it a little bit away from that. I like the, you brought up a diet a little bit ago. Yeah, sometimes your body's telling you you need something salty. You need something sweet. You need saying. It's there. It's telling you what is necessary. One mistake I feel I have made a few times, instead of telling the saying, this is universal. Maybe it's just on me, but I think might be a common feeling is when we discover something that works, we feel like we have to do that thing. But that might have only worked for this specific incident. This worked for now. That doesn't mean I needed salt. I like that salty snack. That didn't mean that next time I don't feel good, I should just load up on the salt. There's a chance that that's now – that's not pushing the other direction. It's not just did that worked and that will always work. It's that that worked for then. 

If you go back to that north star, you're talking about of having that intuitive feeling of this, is this pulling towards something that is working, or is this pulling towards something that is draining? That could change. Allowing for that to change has been something that I've occasionally struggled with about like, hey, this worked. Why is it not working still? This used to work. Why is why – I've doubled down on it? What's happening now? Remembering that this is in the balance world, it's just not one pillar you could hit over and over and over again. It's finding whatever is in gap, in remission in lacking and working on that.

Katherine Warren: I love that so much, because I think you can go for communities, right? I used to love being around this group, or doing this thing, or going to this thing. All of a sudden, it feels off, or it doesn't feel like it's giving me what it did. And honoring that as part of the journey, versus again, that darn should that comes out like, “Oh, I should enjoy this. I've always endured. I should love this salty snack, because it used to be my favorite thing.” It's tough. It's harder than it sounds, right? None of those are easy to do. It's not easy to say, “You know what? This community isn't for me anymore, but this community is for me.”

Alex Cullimore: That's a tough transition. That imagery was also brought to you by the wagon full of peanut butter-filled pretzels that during the pandemic, that eventually became not as helpful.” But it was great for a while.

Cristina Amigoni: That isn’t all salt.

Alex Cullimore: I loved it.

Katherine Warren: Doesn’t sound good right now.

Cristina Amigoni: Last couple of questions for you. One is, what is your definition of authenticity?

Katherine Warren: Raw, real. That's it. Authenticity is not sunshine and rainbows, but it's also not doom and gloom. It's all of it. It's being raw and real and vulnerable in your day-to-day.

Alex Cullimore: Also, sounds like, good general dietary tips, raw and real.

Cristina Amigoni: For raw meat.

Katherine Warren: Yeah.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Maybe, maybe not.

Cristina Amigoni: Maybe not.

Alex Cullimore: Maybe not that.

Cristina Amigoni: Raw chicken. Maybe not.

Katherine Warren: Yeah. No. To podcast listeners –

Cristina Amigoni: Exactly. Cook your chicken. We are not sponsoring salmonella.

Alex Cullimore: We're not sponsoring balance of E. coli in places it should not be. The second question is, where can people find you?

Katherine Warren: Well, you can find me on all my different hat channels. You can find me at kidglov.com. You can also find me at balanceandrise.com.

Cristina Amigoni: We'll have all those in the notes.

Alex Cullimore: If you're okay talking about it, we know you have something in the works about working on some of the pillars of balance. If you'd like to talk about that, what does that work look like?

Katherine Warren: Yeah. Part of my word for the year, not part of it, my word for the year is ‘of service’. Balance and Rise is giving a little spit chime, for lack of a better word. I was calling it a glow up, but I know that's a very cliché term. But Balance and Rise, I'm trying to make my blog more of service. Part of that process is providing a little e-Book about the four pillars as I see them of balance, and putting that on my website, as well as refining some of my blogs, so that they are more how-to guides, so that you can read and want to go, “Okay, here's one way, step two, step three.” versus just my thoughts and opinions on the topic. Yeah, I'm very excited about that. Thrilled to share that with the world here very shortly.

Alex Cullimore: That's very exciting.

Cristina Amigoni: That's exciting. Yeah, we look forward to checking that out when it's ready.

Katherine Warren: Thank you.

Alex Cullimore: Thank you so much, Katherine, for joining us. Thanks for all the incredibly helpful tips and congratulations, for one, on continuing just to celebrate you and your journey. You've done so much, just even in the last couple of years since we've known you. It's just exciting to see, and thank you for sharing that. It's just, they're all great resources to go test things up, try things out, find your own balance, figure out what your right regimen and diet for now is.

Katherine Warren: Yes. Yup. Thank you both. It's been an honor and a pleasure to talk to you today and to work with you throughout the last couple of years. You've been such a tremendous asset to the KidGlov team and to my personal journey as well and listening to your podcast. Thank you for that.

Cristina Amigoni: Well, thank you. Yeah, we love working with your team and I'm sure we'll be doing it again.

Katherine Warren: Absolutely.

Cristina Amigoni: Well, thank you. thanks everybody for listening.

[OUTRO]

Alex Cullimore: Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Uncover the Human. Special thanks to Rachel Sherwood, who help to produce our theme. And of course, our production assistants, Carlee and Niki, for whom we could not do this, or could not publish this. We get to do, basically, the fun parts. Thank you to We Edit Podcasts for editing our podcasts.

Cristina Amigoni: You can find us at podcast@wearesiamo.com. You can find us on LinkedIn. You can find us at Uncover the Human on social media. Follow us. We Are Siamo is W-E-A-R-E-S-I-A-M-O.com.

Alex Cullimore: Please feel free to reach out with questions, topics you'd like addressed. If you'd like to be on the show, reach out. We're around. Thank you, everybody, for listening.

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