From B2B To Human-To-Human: Marketing That Feels Real with Phil Conley

“Phil Conley: Yeah, I feel fortunate. I'm doing what I love, so that makes such a difference in how you show up. Not everyone necessarily has that, and I feel fortunate that I'm doing what I love.”

[INTRODUCTION]

Alex Cullimore: Welcome to Uncover the Human, where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives.

Cristina Amigoni: Whether that’s with our families, co-workers, or even ourselves.

Alex Cullimore: When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.

Cristina Amigoni: This is Cristina Amigoni.

Alex Cullimore: And this is Alex Cullimore.

HOSTS: Let's dive in.

Authenticity means freedom.

Authenticity means going with your gut.

Authenticity is bringing 100% of yourself. Not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you.

Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself.

It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep-rooted and true.

Authenticity is when you truly know yourself. You remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be.

It's transparency, relatability, no frills, no makeup, just being.

[EPISODE]

Alex Cullimore: Hello, Cristina.

Cristina Amigoni: Hello. It's two podcast recordings in a week.

Alex Cullimore: I know. What are we? Crazy?

Cristina Amigoni: I don't know. I haven't done that in a while. Maybe we can squeeze in a third one before the end of the week.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Let's see if we can get one more idea, which means we're not recording on a Friday, for all those paying attention.

Cristina Amigoni: I know. That's the other very bizarre thing. Mercury is in retrograde, and I've read that that's the trickster, so this definitely feels like a trickster's week.

Alex Cullimore: That explains why we're on a different week. But my brain still feels just about as flat as most Fridays, so that's good.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, yes. There's one more day. One more day.

Alex Cullimore: Well, we just had our guest, Phil Conley on. He's into the marketing and B2B space and has a lot of great tips. It was a fun conversation just to talk about what it means to bring authenticity and joy to work, particularly in a field like – he's in the financial space, the marketing space, the B2B space. These are all things that don't always get tagged with the word joy, and I think it was great to get to talk –

Cristina Amigoni: And creativity? Yes.

Alex Cullimore: Great to be able to talk, not only about bringing it to that space, but how much of a difference that makes. It's exciting to see something in what sometimes are not always considered traditionally, I don't want to sound insulting, but not as human, not as emotional. But bringing some of those really human aspects to it.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, fine. How laughter and joy and fun is the human aspect that helps the business.

Alex Cullimore: Yes.

Cristina Amigoni: Shockingly enough.

Alex Cullimore: This turns out, businesses are human at the end of the day. Who knew?

Cristina Amigoni: I know. From you, it is about the human-to-human connection, even in industries where you don't necessarily think that way.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. Really interesting insights, great ideas about how that has helped and how he's brought that to that industry, and how his authentic self has been a tremendous boon to being in that space. It's great to see that coming into play in so many other industries, and I hope everybody enjoys the conversation.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, enjoy.

[INTERVIEW]

Alex Cullimore: Welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human. Today, Cristina and I are joined by our guest, Phil Conley. Welcome to the podcast, Phil.

Phil Conley: Thanks. Glad to be here.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, welcome.

Phil Conley: Thank you.

Cristina Amigoni: Tell us about yourself.

Phil Conley: I’m married. I live in Denver with my husband. I am a marketing professional. Originally created design and moved into the marketing strategy brand space. I work for most commonly known as Zelle, working many different projects in the company, launching a new product called Paze. It's a new way to check out online with your basic credit union. I've been doing that for the last two years, and it's been really exciting and fun to launch a new product.

Alex Cullimore: Is that Paze with a Z?

Phil Conley: Yeah. P-A-Z-E. Not Pa-ze, but Paze. Yeah, yeah.

Alex Cullimore: Like Waze. Yes.

Phil Conley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Alex Cullimore: That's very cool.

Cristina Amigoni: Very cool.

Phil Conley: Been fun.

Alex Cullimore: What do you like about your journey in marketing? Sounds like you've done all of the things, gone from creative into B2B, into other pieces. What's that been like?

Phil Conley: Yeah, it's been an interesting evolution, I think, in my career, in terms of coming from creative and using that, I think, as my authentic self, as I've always been a creative person as a child. I always knew I wanted to do something creative, and I thought originally I was going to be an artist and found that it's hard to make a living doing that, so I quickly pivoted to something in the more professional realm and did design for a number of years, and found I really liked high-level strategy, and working with clients and customers and teams to develop new strategies and ways of producing and communicating to others. That's something I dove into and have been doing that for a while. It's been probably 15 years now, and been most recently, like I said, at Zelle, and doing a lot of the creative and marketing strategy there. I've been really enjoying it.

Cristina Amigoni: That's awesome. It's interesting, because when you think of strategy from a business perspective, you don't think creative in the same sentence, but there's definitely a creativity into creating strategies. How do you still tap into your creativity, your authentic creativity?

Phil Conley: Yeah. I think it's just inherent. It's something that I almost don't even think of. But I've been most recently Director of B2B Marketing on a new product called Paze, as I mentioned. I think I couldn't help but bring my creativity into it. It's just the kind of person I am, and I think that's something that stood out with my team. As marketers know, you might know at B2B Marketing, it's a lot more of the sales and marketing path, where you're really reaching out to your business side of the house and trying to grow your business and bring in customers to grow. Sometimes that's thought of as a lot more sales driven and might be less creative and a little more business type, or boring.

I think in everything I've done, I've brought in creativity and enthusiasm, and how can I make this more interesting? That's shown up in creative writing, or creative ad writing, or campaigns, or activations and events, I brought in celebrities, or created engaging, interactive experiences at a trade show. I think it was two years ago, I hired Mark Summers. If you remember from Nickelodeon Double Dare, it was like a kids’ game show. It's a FinTech, it's one of the biggest FinTech trade shows in the country. You might think, how does Mark Summers and Double Dare fit into a FinTech trade show for Zelle or Paze?

I made it work. We made it all about the dare of being innovative and making the use out of that theme. We had him come in, we put on the whole game show in our booth, where he was doing his thing, as he did for years on the TV show. We had contestants come in and live out their childhood dreams of playing Double Dare, the game show with Mark Summers. It was surprising to see so many grown adults just light up with enthusiasm and excitement to see this and to participate and popping bubbles on their heads and bouncing balls into baskets and all the things that we did. We were such a hit. He was such a great person to work with, and talk about authenticity, he was just the most genuine guy and super nice to work with and fit with everything we wanted to do. Yeah, it was a big hit.

I tend to bring that as much as I can. I'll really push the envelope in terms of what someone might expect and maybe go a little bit beyond. I'm always trying to bring 100%, if not more in my creativity and have a certain way of looking at things, so I try to use that as much as possible. It brings me joy and I think it brings other people joy, so it makes it more fun, right? You got to make your job fun. And working with the people that my team and others that we just – I think it brings out the best in people when they're most comfortable and they feel relaxed and having something like a game show like that with Mark Summers is, people felt like, their guard was down. They didn't feel like we were going to sell anything to them. They could just experience something and have it as a memory. That was great for us, because we got all kinds of press and social media after it, so it worked out really well. I really enjoyed doing that kind of thing.

Cristina Amigoni: That sounds awesome.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, it's a great idea. Really get that experience in there, get people to actually try something that is out of the norm, but they are super enjoyable. Definitely makes things a lot more fun. I don't think we've noticed in working with clients is that we tend to do is we've got a few comments like, “Hey, we tend to laugh a lot more in these meetings.” Like, yeah, yeah, as work can be enjoyable. It doesn't have to be just a slog.

Phil Conley: Oh, absolutely. I had a boss that was the most I want out of my team is joy and enthusiasm. He was a dad joke king, and he would just bring the jokes all the time and just made everyone feel comfortable, and we had a lot of fun.

Cristina Amigoni: It makes a huge difference. Since you experienced it with a boss like that and you provide it for your team, what do you see the difference being? What happens in the workplace and for people, for the humans in it when that happens?

Phil Conley: Oh, it makes a huge difference. I think when people feel that they're not scrutinized, or they're able to come with their own true authenticity and ideas and their own enthusiasm, it builds on itself. I try to instill that as much as possible. I love a brainstorm session. I love working with people on creating something fun and exciting. If you allow people to show up as their true self and remove any of the expectations, or barriers, people can really come up with really fun things. I think out of that example, it was like, how we got to Mark Summers on and bringing him into our trade show was ideating off of ideas. Like, what can we do? How can we spin out things?

That was probably maybe the 10th in the list of what can we do and how do we get there. It only happens when you have people together that are together, comfortable and willing to share and be authentic in their expression and how you work together. That can go outside of work, too. It's like, when you're planning a trip, or you're with some friends, or your partner and you don't have any set expectations and you go with the flow. I think a lot of your best results can come from authenticity. I think it makes a big difference.

Alex Cullimore: That makes sense, for especially loosening up internally on the team and helping people find new creative expression. You said, you like to deliver a little bit more than people expect. It sounds like you got a good way of making that happen within the team. I'm curious what happens when you bring that out of the team, you need to buy in from people who didn't get to join and enjoy the full brainstorm and then come to that idea together. How do you approach that?

Phil Conley: Well, I think for one, some folks might feel left out if they're not involved, because they see how much fun we're having, for one. I think those that are maybe the buy-in, or the folks that need to okay it, tends to work when you come with obviously, the enthusiasm, the creativity of why this matters, or why this feels right. But then, you can relate it to how it might create an impact. The why is always very important. Without the why you could do anything and it might be completely off the wall and not make any sense, even though it might be fun doing it. I think having that strong why will give that anchor that others feel is important and it gives you the ROI, that most highly star and most businesses are looking for. Yeah, I think that's always important to include in your creativity and your brainstorming.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, that makes sense getting some of that buy-in, making sure you have the idea of why this is important to whoever you're selling it to as well. Whoever you're selling the idea to.

Phil Conley: Yeah, definitely. They're like, “Okay, I don't know what you're talking about, or who that is, but tell me why we would do that.” If you're like, “Oh, I just wanted to do it, because it was fun.” Then they're going to be like, “Maybe not.” You got to bring a little bit of the business in there to make those things happen. I've done others, too, with one of the main actors from The Office, Brian Baumgartner, who played Kevin, and we did Office Trivia. That was a huge success.

Cristina Amigoni: That’s awesome.

Phil Conley: Yeah. I mean, the celebrity route is always fun, because people just get excited around celebrities, if it's sports, or TV. I really like to extend it into my daily life, too. I like to keep my space true to myself and make it inspiring and motivating to either of my work in, or with my art collection and show off who I feel I want to be. It makes a difference.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, it can be a great permission structure to help other people start to do the same. Do you find yourself having to encourage people to start to do that? Or is this something that happens more naturally for themselves?

Phil Conley: Yeah. Everyone comes with their own personality, I think. Being a leader on a team is, you don't always know what you're going to get in terms of team members, or personalities. I have a wide variety of people I work with. I like to help empower, not enable. It's more of bringing folks in to say, well, what would you do in this situation? How do you feel about this? I can come up with ideas all the time. I'm like, “Well, what do you think about it? What would you do in this situation?” Sometimes it takes more encouragement for some people. Others, you don't have to try, because they'll willfully give it to you. There's all kinds of different people you come across.

I've had the fortunate experience to work with a lot of great people in my career. I've had a lot of fun over the years. I still have people I am close friends with from previous companies, from God, right out of college. I still know people and they feel like family. We have so much fun back in the day coming up with ideas to do things. Over one year back in the – what's the game show, the talent show?

Cristina Amigoni: America's Got Talent?

Phil Conley: America's Got Talent. Yeah. When that first came out, we did a whole event where we had our own talent from in our company, audition for an annual sales conference. We did a whole production. The marketing team put a whole production, where we had the talent from our own company come in and did a whole America's Got Talent type theme, and the programming and the messaging and the talent. We had them up on stage singing. It was all tied together to the theme of the event. We still talk about that and all the crazy things that happened behind the scenes and leading up to it.

Cristina Amigoni: That’s so awesome.

Phil Conley: Yeah, I feel fortunate. I'm doing what I love, so that makes such a difference in how you show up. Not everyone necessarily has that. I feel fortunate that I'm doing what I love and can continue to do that. I think that helps a lot with bringing the creativity, the enthusiasm, the authenticity and weaving in empathy, I think, has a lot to do with it, too. Just being empathetic to other people and how they see the world. Not everyone has a creative eye. That's why I get to do it. Hopefully, not everyone is creative. I work with them.

Cristina Amigoni: No, there’s plenty of non-creative.

Phil Conley: Then everyone brings their own side, right? I don't have as much –

Cristina Amigoni: Exactly.

Phil Conley: God, I'm terrible at math. Some people have that analytical mind. I tend to balance a little bit about, but definitely more on the creative side.

Cristina Amigoni: As a leader, how do you ensure that others are able to do what they love on your team, so that they can bring their more authentic side?

Phil Conley: I think it's finding the skill set and the strength in each person and utilizing that and having them work through that, and knowing everyone comes with their own set of skills and expertise and background. We can't paint everyone with a wide brush. Each person has to, they have their own authenticity. How can we all use that collectively to achieve common goals? That's how I try to look at everyone in that way, so we can all get what we are looking for out of it.

I haven't tried that in my marriage, because he knows what his skill sets are. He knows what my skill sets are. It's taken some time. But if we're doing something in the house, he knows his part and then I know my part. It makes it a lot easier to accomplish.

Cristina Amigoni: That does help. Yes.

Phil Conley: Yeah, yeah.

Cristina Amigoni: It definitely helps. 

Phil Conley: He's great at holding things and picking up things and fetching things.

Cristina Amigoni: You’re there telling them where to put them. This is what the design is going to be like.

Phil Conley: Exactly. This is the whole plan. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Alex Cullimore: That's a good way of looking at it. You've talked about some of the joy that brings. That's definitely one of the things that we like to promote. We talk about authenticity is the amount of energy you get to have and can bring to things when you're in a more authentic space, because you're not spending any of that energy, pretending to be somebody else, who gets to just spend it on whatever you're doing. I'm curious, how much the role – you've talked a lot about some of the joy that that just brought, some of the difference that makes. How do you see that playing out for customers, especially in the B2B space? How does joy help?

Phil Conley: That's a good question. I think it might be something where maybe our – I work with a lot of merchants and business partners, where I think they might resonate with things that are the unexpected and they might not have necessarily an idea of what they're interacting with, or what they're seeing, or reading, but they might say, “Oh, I like this and I want to read more. I want to see more. I want to do more of this,” because it's unexpected, or it's interesting and it feels inviting. I think that's the reaction we're hoping for is everyone wants to stand out. Everyone wants to have that differentiator.

I think, I'm in what would be called the payment space, the e-commerce payment space with what Paze is. I think there's a certain expectation that, well, you got to give me the schematics. You got to give me the technical side of things. You got to give me the business acumen, all the things that would come with that. They wouldn't expect, why do you not have summers in your booth, when you're talking about adding a digital wallet to my e-commerce platform? Or they might see an ad that doesn't particularly look like something they would expect, or read something they'd expect, but it's resonating with them. That's what we're hoping for is we might be in this space, but I like to look at our audience. They're obviously human, right? Beyond that, they're consumers. Even if they're the business side of the house that we're looking to engage with, they're still consumers, like everyone else.

They get on social media, they zone off, and might doom scroll on Facebook, so why not get them where they’re at, just like everyone else, you know? You can't bore everyone to death with business language. They want to be felt as humans, too, and you got to treat them as such. I'm hoping that's what they're getting out of it.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, I think that's a really good insight, because even if we are supposed to, or are told we're supposed to be professionals, or we're supposed to be whatever else in the workplace, we're humans, and we're all relating to emotional content. Unless, we're really dialed into a specific KPI, and for whatever reason, it gives us joy, we're not going to –

Phil Conley: Right. Unless, you're an academic, and I think they like to be at a certain level above a lot of us. But I think the rest of us just like to have fun and laugh with each other. I'm sure they do too, but – 

Alex Cullimore: It just sometimes takes a little work to get them to do it.

Phil Conley: Right, right.

Cristina Amigoni: Maybe when nobody's watching.

Phil Conley: Right, exactly. Exactly.

Alex Cullimore: Take the elbow patches off.

Phil Conley: Right. Right, right.

Cristina Amigoni: I'm not sure if I've ever heard joy and KPIs being in the same sentence.

Phil Conley: I know, right? Well, it's part of our branding is delivering joy as part of our mission. We try to inject that in everything we do, and I take that to heart as well. Like I said, if someone leaves our experience, or reads an ad, or experiences are branded in some way, they're like, “Oh, I remember them, because they just made me feel a certain way.” We've been getting a lot of feedback like that, and it's been rewarding to see that people are resonating with what we're doing.

Phil Conley: Well, especially when you go to a convention and all it is is booth after booth after booth of like, get this piece of paper and then get the postcard and have a boring conversation, or maybe walk by when nobody's watching, so that nobody stops you, and you have to have a conversation.

Phil Conley: Right, right. Get stuck and be like, “Oh, God. This guy's going to sell something to me.” Yeah, speaking of, we were just at this big conference, and we got a lot of comments about how great inviting our booth was. We actually were unofficially officially nominated as the number two booth out of 10, top 10 in the whole place. I was like, that's so awesome. We brought a lot of our personality, and we tried to just be relaxing. We had a barista there, and people are just having coffee and chatting and sitting down and hanging out, and they feel comfortable to approach us. I think that was a big win. That's the effort we're trying to bring. Seems to be paying off so far.

Cristina Amigoni: That’s awesome. Great examples.

Alex Cullimore: Focus on the human experience, given the chance. If you want to have conversations with people, then put the things that people want to have conversations around. Put coffee, put something to talk about.

Phil Conley: Right?

Alex Cullimore: Give them a game show host.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes.

Phil Conley: Exactly. Exactly. Give them the unexpected, too, and they'll give you more. It's like, oh, we are sponsors of the Atlanta Hawks in the NBA. We all wore our Hawks jerseys with our Paze brand on it. People were just like, “Oh, my God. I'm from Atlanta. Why are you wearing Atlanta Hawks? I want to know more.” It just brings that level of approachability and relatability. That seems to be the biggest thing these days. So much of it is noise. People just don't know where to look. It's like a deer in headlights. If you're trying to address something, or you're trying to get in front of somebody and in advertising, it's that number one rule is less is more and bring your true self and have a clear message, and got three seconds to resonate, so it better be good and memorable.

Cristina Amigoni: True. Do you walk around the world and just constantly rate experiences that are wrong to you, and say like, “Nope, nope, nope. Bored.”

Phil Conley: Well, now you're calling me out, because I was trying to, yeah.

Cristina Amigoni: I would make his back.

Phil Conley: In my head anyway, and just vocalize it. I have a tendency to focus on things that people probably never even noticed, or see. I’m very detail oriented. Someone on my team, my events manager will definitely – she always laughs at me, because he knows, as soon as I have a certain face and I see something, she's like, “Uh-oh. Phil’s fancy. He sees something. Something's not right, or something is going to change.” Just like, the details matter to me. I'll see what other people are doing. I'll notice and point out, this is really working, or I love that campaign, or I love what they did in their booth. I tend to keep it to myself, but I'll make mental notes and try not to come across as judgy. It feels like work.

Cristina Amigoni: I'm now curious, but also a little bit scared of what you may think of our website and marketing material.

Phil Conley: Oh, no. Yeah, I've checked you guys out before. You guys have a dam. You have a clear message, and a great brand.

Alex Cullimore: If you could just tell us what it is, that'd be great.

Phil Conley: We can always talk, right?

Alex Cullimore: Sometimes we don't know.

Phil Conley: Yeah. It's tricky. Marketing is something more of an art, I'd say, than a science.

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, it is.

Phil Conley: You got to have the science behind it, too. Yeah, and not everyone really understands the B2B side. The B2C side is a little easier, because it's relating to consumers and giving them what they want. It seems to be that open-ended, you can be as creative and express as you want, and people don't tend to think of that on the business side. That's, like I said before, I just, I'm like, why not? We can be creative, too.

Cristina Amigoni: They're still humans that are –

Phil Conley: Yeah, exactly.

Cristina Amigoni: - buying on the business side.

Phil Conley: Right. They have to make decisions, and sometimes they're influenced by what's the most captivating, what's the most fun, what's the most creative, when they have to remember, even who you are. It makes a big difference.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, we're not making content for AI-procurement bots yet.

Phil Conley: Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Cullimore: Still humans for now.

Phil Conley: That's going to change. That's going to change everything, right? It's already changing. One of our bigger things is bringing in that level of trust with all of the technology these days, with AI and Bitcoin, stablecoins, where do you put your trust in who you rely on? We try to instill a lot of that messaging and more of that credibility, authenticity, and like, anyone can say anything in marketing almost. If it isn't backed up with something credible. Consumers are smart. There's so many savvy consumers these days. They're going to see right through it. If everyone's saying the same thing, but if you can't back it up and prove it, then you’re sunk. Got to bring the evidence.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. You got to have some trust for people to want to give you their money. Then, you're also working in a space where you're handling people's monies, so there's extra levels of like, we need to be super trustworthy.

Phil Conley: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Alex Cullimore: It's not just our contract with you, it's your contract with everybody else.

Phil Conley: Yeah. I mean, working with our clients, and they need to know that what we're delivering is something that they can trust and that it's going to work. It's going to have all the safety and security that we're claiming and the relationship building inside, our word matters. All of that is important as key.

Cristina Amigoni: How is AI and all the technology stuff out there influencing being able to be creative and creating that trust between humans?

Phil Conley: Yeah, that's interesting. It's all new territory. I think, I'm noticing it right away. You can almost spot it. If you're seeing something, you're like, “Wait. I don't think this is real. It's getting a little tricky even sometimes.” I'm like, “Oh, my God. Is this is real, or is this not real?” It's blowing it up, in terms of anything is possible now. You can imagine it, you can make it happen now. It's like, sky is the limit. I think it's only going to get – there's only going to be more realistic and more options.

I think on the creative side, use it like a tool. You can only make everything better. We're working with how to integrate and everything we're doing and to see how to use that as a tool and not replacing anyone. We want to make sure that we keep that true human side to what we're doing. There's so much nuance that artificial intelligence isn't going to be able to bring. I think empathy is what makes us human. AI is just repeating what we've already given it. That's not deciphering between what should, or should not be done, or said. It's just giving you a prompt, based on a prompt. We'll see how it evolves. It'll be interesting.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. I think that's the important part that people keep missing. It's not really intelligence. It's predictive. It's trying to do its best. It's not the same as generating. It's not the same as having any code of morals. It's just trying to take its best guess from what it has already been given, and it's easy to miss that. I like how it said, it's more about enhancing people and letting people have more capabilities than replacing them. That's what we've definitely noticed. There's a lot of excitement of this idea that you could replace people, but we've really only seen at best, enhancements. You have to have people who have learned and practiced enough with it. Otherwise, it's just another tool that sits on a shelf, or you pay back the fee for.

Phil Conley: Right. You guys must come across it all the time with what you're doing and how you're applying the human in your solutions. AI playing a part of that, it must be coming through with your clients. There's probably a lot of interpretation and some intimidation around it. Well, what does that do for us? Where are we going to wind up? It's happening with bigger companies. As you see, the layoffs happening. I think it's going to be a backlash of people are going to be like –

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, it definitely will.

Phil Conley: Yeah, right? Oh, wait. Those 9,000 people we just laid off, maybe that wasn't a good idea. Now we’re losing –

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It never is. Yeah.

Phil Conley: Right. Yeah. I think it's like, if you lose your soul of the company, or your culture, makes a big difference in output and productivity and who you are. Your brand shows up in that way, so yeah.

Cristina Amigoni: Well, and to circle back to what we've been talking about is people buy from other humans when they feel the connection on an empathy level, on a joy level, on a laughing level, on a trusting in other human level. Sure, lay off your thousands of people for whatever bottom line you think you're going to reach. But then, the people that are buying from you are going to lose that connection and they're going to stop buying from you.

Phil Conley: Absolutely.

Cristina Amigoni: Where is that getting you? It's like, what's the other side of laying all these people off?

Phil Conley: Right. Right. I mean, that's the heart of brand. Your brand is your people and being able to advocate your brand and putting that out there, whether it's in an ad, it has to come from somebody that believes in how to make a compelling campaign or brand resonate with the consumer. Absolutely. I'm optimistic that AI is going to be an enhancement and all that we do. Just like the Internet came out. We don't even think about it anymore, but everyone Google's everything now.

I remember back in the day, it was like, is it okay if I Google what that means? Finding like, is that going to blow my cover that I don't know what that means? Or that I found this online? We don't even think about it now. It's just commonplace. I'm sure AI will have a lot of that as well.

Alex Cullimore: That's our best guess as well. We will just become settled into a productivity tool, something you can use well to enhance. It'll become very commonplace. It won't replace all the people. Companies are going to have to replace the people they laid off in the meantime.

Phil Conley: Right. Right. If anything, they're going to try to make AI more human, because that's what we're going to relate to. That's how it's going to work.

Alex Cullimore: Now, you talk about that emotional reaction and trying to get that joy. You tapped into exactly what we've seen a lot, which is that trepidation. It's hard to sell people on something they're afraid of –

Phil Conley: Absolutely.

Alex Cullimore: - and people keep using in fearful ways. It is definitely a huge interesting problem to solve in buy-in and interest and how you talk to people, but it's also how are you going to get people to use it if it doesn't feel human enough, if it doesn't actually work how we want it to?

Phil Conley: Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be an interesting evolution for sure. I'm glad it's great to be on the ground floor of it. We can sculpt it and make it what we want. We're still figuring it out on our end and how we want to best utilize it. So far, it's been fun. I mean, the level of creativity is, like I said, is endless. What can't we do with it? How do we limit ourselves? It's like, it's almost daunting. Where do we start? We're in the future. We're living in the future. It’s here.

Cristina Amigoni: Until all the data centers go down and then we can't even communicate anymore.

Phil Conley: Right. Oh, my God. I know. Become dependent on it so much, I know. It’s funny. Sometimes I talk to – I call the UFC, and the 20-year-olds and what was it? I was just telling somebody about what a VHS was, or we had to rent movies, or I date myself and like, “I remember when computers came out.” It's wild. The generation these days, it's just at their fingertips. It's going to be an interesting next century of evolution.

Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm. It will be.

Phil Conley: Yeah.

Cristina Amigoni: For sure. Where can people find you?

Phil Conley: Well, they can find me, most likely on LinkedIn, under Phil Conley. I have my streaming background and experience there. I'm not too much on social anymore. I'm not on Facebook or Instagram, so much anymore. I'm trying to limit myself, and I'm a big podcaster these days. In terms of listening, this is fun to be on a podcast. Hopefully, somebody gets some value out of this.

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, they will. What are your favorite podcasts?

Phil Conley: Oh, my gosh. I like the, obviously, the fun ones, the creative ones. I have a ritual of listening to SmartLess and Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend. He cracks me up.

Cristina Amigoni: I love Conan.

Phil Conley: Oh, my God.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It's so funny.

Phil Conley: Every Monday, I listen to those two back-to-back. Then, I'm so happy he has a Wednesday, Thursday Conan. He's a fan. I get to get more again during the week.

Cristina Amigoni: I have to check that one out.

Phil Conley: Yeah. It's where he talks to fans from all around the world and so he’s where it is. Then Amy Poehler came out with one, Good Hang, and she's fun. She feels like a good friend of mine, and it feels like I'm just hanging out with my friend listening to the conversation.

Cristina Amigoni: Oh, that’s nice.

Phil Conley: I also like some of the political stuff. I like some of the self-help stuff. I'm all over the place.

Cristina Amigoni: Nice.

Phil Conley: Yeah. Those are my go-tos.

Cristina Amigoni: I have to check out Conan Needs a Friend.

Phil Conley: Yeah. I think it's Wednesdays, or Thursdays, but he talks to a non-celebrity and they usually give him a bunch of shit and he likes to rap. It's always fun.

Cristina Amigoni: We've talked a lot about showing up authentically and bringing your authenticity. What does authenticity mean to you?

Phil Conley: I think authenticity is bringing the best out of yourself and what you can bring to others. But I think first, is being true to yourself, as in all things. Honor your true self and authenticity and just being who you are. Not everyone feels comfortable and not all the time. If you're in a good place and you have a good sense of awareness, I think authenticity is your strongest asset in everything that you do. I think that allows me to bring and be confident about my creativity, in a business acumen of in marketing. I think, I couldn't be more authentic if I didn't bring my creativity. That's how I see it.

Alex Cullimore: Oh, it's a great definition.

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It definitely is. Yeah. Well, thank you, Phil.

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, thanks for joining us.

Phil Conley: Yeah, thank you guys. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It's been fun.

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you for your time and creativity.

Phil Conley: Yeah, you're welcome.

Cristina Amigoni: Thanks everybody for listening.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

Alex Cullimore: Thanks so much for listening to Uncover the Human. We Are Siamo, that is the company that sponsors and created this podcast. If you’d like to reach out to us further, reach out with any questions or to be on the podcast, please reach out to podcast@wearesiamo.com. Or you can find us on Instagram. Our handle is @wearesiamo, S-I-A-M-O. Or you can go to wearesiamo.com and check us out there. Or, I suppose, Cristina, you and I have LinkedIn as well. People could find us anywhere else.

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, we do have LinkedIn. Yes. Yeah. We’d like to thank Abbay Robinson for producing our podcast and making sure that they actually reach all of you. And Rachel Sherwood for the wonderful score.

Alex Cullimore: Thank you guys so much for listening. Tune in next time.

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you. 

[END]