The People Revolution with Kendra Prospero

Authenticity is bringing 100% o egrity to yourself. Hello, christina. Hello, how are you Doing good? We just had a great conversation with Kendra Prospero, so she's got this really cool company called Turn In The Corner LLC. I mean, i don't even know if we have to introduce much about it. Her energy for this comes through in every sentence. It was just incredible to hear her talk about all the incredible work she gets to do and how she got there. And it's an incredible conversation.

Yeah, it really is an incredible conversation. Just the energy, the nuggets, the different concepts, the words that she's created that are now part of our vocabulary, like flexible eyes, and just the way to look at things, and even just the history of how she got into the work that she's doing. But it all started when she was a little girl and she just had to find her way to what that was. So, yeah, definitely very recommended conversation. Yeah, enjoy, enjoy.

Welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human. We are joined, Kristian and I, with our guest today, Kendra Prospero. Welcome to the podcast, Kendra.

Great to be here. Thanks so much Welcome.

We're excited to have you. So just to give our audience a little background what's your story? What got you here?

Ever since I was a little girl I have been curious about the work people do and why. And in fact I remember asking grownups in my life, what do you do and why do you do it and do you love it? And I thought, well, is this a secret? Like, is hating your job a secret? And so I was just been really curious about the work people do. And naturally, when I went to college I got a degree in computer information systems. I had nothing to do with that And I ended up kind of going through this career of really being in a job where I had a skill but not a strength and ended up hating my job. And there's no teacher like the teacher of experience, right. So here I am just so passionate about everybody wanting to love their job And now I'm in a situation where I hate my job. For 12 years I stayed there and I worked for IBM and but I was always still really curious about the work people did And I ended up kind of developing this reputation for being someone that people could come to to get advice around their career and how to navigate. You know conversations with their boss and how to navigate. You know conversations with their boss And I mean, even though I was like miles from human resources, i was nothing to do with my job, i just loved those conversations And so I got doing that for many, many years And finally, in 2011, i was belly aching to a girlfriend of mine who I worked with about how much I hated my job And she's like do something about it. Like do something, why don't you start a business and go out and start helping other people love their jobs? And I at the time was had had some other things happen where I was like, yeah, i think it is time. And so I opened up turning the corner in 2011 with the intention of helping companies create the conditions for people to thrive, because I had so deeply experienced how costly I honestly was to the business because I wasn't giving it my all, i wasn't very skilled in the work, i was, you know, probably disruptive to my management team and not that easy to work with or for or around, and so I just could feel all of that. And again, experience is a great teacher. And so I felt all that really kind of figured out how to fix it for businesses, and especially growing small businesses, because small businesses don't have access to the types of resources that a large corporation will have, like on the HR team or a good coach. Most small businesses hire HR out of their accounting team or their office staff. Don't ask me why. That's where the key comes from necessarily wired to kind of help people navigate a lot of those discussions, and so that is really the origin of turning the corner. And now we've been in business for 12 years and we've helped hundreds of businesses turn the corner and help them, like figure out how to create those conditions where their people are thriving and they don't have that revolving door of talent which is extremely expensive And I've experienced it as a business owner now too. And also we help people, individuals, navigate what do they want to do next and how do they get to a place where they are content in the work they do. I don't believe you can always be happy in a job. I don't think happiness is even something you can achieve. You experience it and then it goes away. But contentment and fulfillment is something you can. You can experience and or actually achieve. So that's what we're really aiming for.

That's awesome.

Yeah, awesome story and awesome delineation. I love the contentment.

Yes, yeah, i actually just recently stumbled upon that with a guest I had on my podcast who brought that up, and I thought that is so profound Because, yes, happiness is not achievable. It's just, you know, you have this experience and then it goes away and you're like uh, It's very true, yeah.

And also the fulfillment. You can love what you do and know that some days are just going to suck. It's just how it is. Yep, meetings are not going to be great meetings, you're not always going to feel great, but you can still love what you do if you find fulfillment in it. And I love your delineation also between having skills and strengths and how that usually gets seen as one and the same is like well, your skills. So what you were trained to do is your strengths. So you're going to be an accountant for the rest of your life or you're going to work in computer systems for the rest of your life, because that's what you were trained on.

It's so true, and I think leaders and people who are in a position of hiring really need to understand that, because and how I see it, is a kind of a triangle where it's an intersection of your skills and your personality, and that intersection is your strengths. And then, on the bottom part of the triangle, is the intersection then of what do you really need from a job and what does this job fit in with your career and your lifestyle, because that also affects your skills and affects your personality, and so it's that trifecta that really gets people to a place where they can reach more of that fulfillment. And so and that's one of the things we teach when we're, you know, we have a management training program that teaches managers how to be great managers, and that's one of the fundamental principles of hiring is like, just think a little bit differently about the people you're bringing in, because you can't train a personality, but you can definitely train a skill, and if you have a personality that has got the propensity for it, then great, right You've got. It'll be so much easier to train that person. And that was actually the final job I had at IBM was I had the opportunity long story still don't quite understand how I got there, but I had this opportunity to put together a leadership development program for our division of IBM that had been bought out And it was then that I found my calling, because that was my strengths and my personalities kind of coming together.

That's awesome And that's so true for so many people Like they did a discovery of that moment where you find your spark, and that tends to be something you probably didn't see coming or something that was out of left field. And it does take that bravery to just jump in and you say you don't even know how you got the opportunity to do it. But if you're willing to jump in and take that, you sometimes end up finding that real confluence of all three of those angles of that triangle.

Well, and sometimes you're out in left field and you're constantly catching the ball and people are like how do you do that? And you're like I don't know. And then finally someone says you're really good at that, and you kind of go, oh yeah, i am good at that.

Actually I didn't even realize that That's true. It's like when people say like wow, you're great with the curve balls, i'm like they were curve balls. Is this not how the normal is? This is how my day normally is.

And that's how, when we coach people on finding work that they love, we ask them that question like what's something you do that just comes easy for you, or something that you do that time just flies by, because that means you're getting in flow And you're quickly getting into flow, and those are things where, generally, your brain is wired for that. Now, you can't always monetize that. I worked with a guy who was a really excellent climber but wasn't that good to be like a professional climber. So it's like okay, can you create a job where you have a lot of free time where you can climb, but you can't always monetize on what your makes time fly by, but it's good to kind of be mindful of that.

Yeah, definitely is. I really like the bottom part of the triangle, love the triangle image, but the bottom part of the triangle, how it's like, the circumstances and what's happening in life and what do you need in life right now? Because sometimes you're like we've, i'm sure, all been in jobs where we know we hate it, we know this is not fulfilling and we have different strengths, and yet the necessity is keeping us where we are until we can hopefully break ourselves free and try something differently, whether it's family related, financial related, location related, whatever it is. But sometimes we do have the necessities is like I'm going to have to hate this for a while because this is what needs to be done.

Right, you can compromise on those things for a short amount of time and make it, but not for very long. Eventually your body won't won't allow you to either. I mean, that's when you end up with those health issues, you end up with divorces, you end up with drug abuse, all sorts of things, because you really just can't take it for too long. And it's a good thing to bring up in an interview too. And not so much are you gonna gonna survive this? You know you don't ask a question like that in an interview, but being able to say you know, what do you really need from a job to be happy? And then listening for what the answers are. Because we have found I mean we do. Half of my revenue comes from recruiting, helping businesses find great people, and so we've interviewed hundreds, thousands of people over the years now, because it's such a big part of what we do And we always ask that question what do you need from a job? And what I find is that people who are in the middle of their career and actually kind of know a little bit more about that, tend to have for maybe five, maybe six things that they really need from a job to be happy And they come down to actually about the same things I hear over and over and over. And so then, as an employer, you want to pause and think well, can I provide that for them? Can I actually do that for them? Because if you can't, it can't provide that to them as an employer, like it will ultimately be a deal breaker. They're going to revolve out. They're going to only last six to nine months. Maybe you'll get 18 months out of them, but that's not longevity that makes it. I mean, that's still expensive turnover, and so it's a really good question to ask. And then I always love asking the follow on question of well, how do you know you have it? Because sometimes, like you might have the need, christina, for flexibility. I have a need for flexibility. Maybe you do as well, alex, i don't know, but I promise you, every one of our definitions of flexibility down to being a little bit different, which is why you want to ask the question well, how do you know you have it? Because you know, for me, like flexibility means just setting my schedule, like I just need. I mean, i'm going to work 60 hours a week, probably some weeks, not every week, but but I will. I don't want to be told what hours I need to work. That's me for flexibility. Other people, though, need really part-time work, need a day off a week, whatever it might be, and so you can come up with different ways to accommodate them when you ask that question.

Love those questions. They're great questions. Do you find that people can be honest with the answers or try to answer the question based on what they think the employer is going to want to hear?

Yeah, that's a great question. So if the employer is creating these conditions for people to feel nervous, to feel on edge, then, yeah, they're going to lie or they're going to say what not lie. people don't go in and naturally wanting to lie, but they are going to bend the truth to the success. If we, as employers, create the conditions where people feel relaxed, feel like they can be authentic and be who they really are, then it changes the entire conversation. But so many managers and leaders have been taught to put people in a stressful situation during an interview. It's, by its nature, already stressful, like you don't need to up the game on that one, I promise. And so what you want to do is you want to tone it down and create it. Make people feel safe and comfortable, feel like they can be their authentic self, because then you will get the real answers out of them, And that's what you want. Like you don't want to bring someone into your business who's telling you're spending the truth and then 18 months later they leave. Who wins? Nobody wins. So I don't see the benefit to putting people in a stressful situation at all. You're not getting the best out of them. Absolutely you're not getting the best out of them. So, yeah, you're right, though I mean, if you want to get answers that are inauthentic and are bending the truth, by all means make it as stressful as you want. Knock yourself out.

I do wish there were like some companies out there were like our value is inauthenticity. We really need people just not feel like themselves here.

Yeah, exactly, we want you to show up and do exactly what we tell you to do and not question. It Said no leader ever out loud, right Out loud is the key word there.

Internally they say it all the time and expect it all the time, but out loud, it's not a billboard message.

Well, it's your point with your story with IBM. I mean, there's you're to talk about. Maybe you can get 18 months out of somebody, but think about what that person is doing for those 18 months. If they're not really invested, if they're not really able to. Yeah, you might get that a stretch of time and you might be able to stretch the time that you get from them, but it's not going to be. They're not going to be able to keep it all. It's going to be causing friction on the team within whatever you're trying to accomplish, and then inevitably it will also turn to the turnover. So you've got a hard sell on top of expensive turnover. It's just doubling down on your pain to go create that instead of creating. What you're saying is just a much more. Hey, let's figure out who you really are, what you really need and whether we can do that. Then it is the conversation that they always kind of talk about, where you're interviewing them and they're interviewing you. It has to be a good fit for both for this to really be successful.

Yeah, and I think it's also a totally new way of leading And I feel like we're starting to see this as more of a trend now. But even six or seven years ago I was out kind of marching to the speed around like we've got to change the way we lead. The command and control is no longer going to work. We have to trade ourselves now as leaders as sitting back and creating the conditions and then watching and seeing if it worked or not, because especially COVID taught us that we've got to be adaptable, we've got to be adjustable, we've got to flexibleize all the time everything Flexibleize, flexibleize, flexibleize, because nothing can be guaranteed anymore. And as leaders, I think in a way my field human resources has really really solidified this in a negative way is that policies became the answer And a policy-based people agenda is just not going to fly anymore. People are not going to live on a policy, they're going to question it all the time. So we as leaders need to be questioning it all the time. Why do we need to be in office, why I'm not saying it's right or wrong or good or bad, but why And why do we do drug testing? Why It's legal in 38 states, why Do we really care what people do in the evenings and on the weekends? Right, like just opening that up and just saying is there anyone else in the whole world that might be doing it Just a tiny bit different? Because if there are, then we probably can question it ourselves. I mean, one of our customers is in the retail space, so they need people to make money Right, they need people in their buildings to make money. But they change the way they schedule And based on our advice, by the way, too. But we didn't really make this happen. But they were struggling so much with who wanted to be there for what shift and this and that, and people calling out And instead of just making it, this like manager's going to make the decision and you will show up, and then they call out right, they said, all right, here's the schedule, here's all the shifts we need, here are the hours you guys figured out And they co-created as team. A team Oh, i'll take that shift because I know you're in school that day. Oh, you want to go to that concert. I don't like that concert, but I want to go on Saturday night. Right, like they co-created it. And yeah, there's the occasional times when there's a gap and the manager has to step in and be like all right people, who's going to work this shift? Right? But it's such a more beautiful way to again create those conditions and sit back. Huh, let's see what's going to happen. Does it work? Yeah, it worked. It worked, it's awesome And it's a retail environment where people have to be in office in building. But if they can make that work, any one of us can make it work for having more flexibility in our schedules, for example.

That's a great example, well, in part, of what you said. Like you know, the constant need to flexible eyes I love that word, by the way flexible eyes.

By the way, I bought the domain name standby Awesome.

Okay, We will pay you copyrights at the end of the podcast. But it's true. And then you know we call it change agility. But you're constantly the thing. Everything is constantly changing on a daily basis, on an hourly basis, and you have to have the agility to adapt and not be stuck on this Like well, the policy says this and we've always done it this way, and where's the data that proves that if we co-create the schedule, it's actually going to work? I'm like, okay, well, why do you need data? Why don't you just try it out And if people are happy and showing up, it worked?

Yeah, and I would say that about everything. I mean, throw something at me that you think you couldn't flexible eyes, let's riff on it. Can you think of anything?

I love the return to office one.

Yeah, how about salaries? Total comp? Yes, total comp, okay. So I have a very diverse team. Considering the size of my team, i mean, we're only about 20 people, but if I you want to look at diversity as a wheel and not just like black or white or male or female, the whole bunch of things that make diversity, so I have male and female, i have every generation represented on my team, i have every religion, almost every religion. I have LGBTQ, i have disabilities, i have, let's see, i have different races, i have different class backgrounds, like. It's a really beautiful diverse team. And, as a leader, that challenges me to think a little bit differently. So, for example, we brought in benefits a couple of years ago. Didn't need them for a long time, but brought in benefits. Well, two of my staff members are baby boomers And they're like I don't need your benefits, i'm on Medicare for single bear, sorry, so like, but we know what else could we get. And I'm like flexible eyes to thrive here. Do you want more vacation time? Sure, okay. So they have more vacation time. Then you have my, my zoomers. They don't care about a 401k. They're like help me figure out how to take care of my college debt. Okay, i'm on it, let me see what I can do. Why not on this, i don't know? Right. And then you get the people in the middle of the millennials and the Gen X is like me. I just want a very flexible schedule, i want to be able to stay for retirement, i want a decent amount of vacation, but I'm willing to forego salary for some of that, right? So total comp that conversation around total comp becomes much more interesting than salary. And when you think about hiring people, if you can say that, look at the options you have. It's an all a cart menu that has to add up to this number. Is it more work? Yeah, yeah, it's more work, for sure, but it's worth it. It's totally worth it to think through it that way.

I would have given anything for many jobs just to have that kind of flexibility to decide. So there's you just get like two or three options. Maybe here's our exact vacation package everybody gets. And here's you can choose your three healthcare plans And that's end of list. You might be able to negotiate your salary and now you're done. Now you're at it.

Yeah, and it's all based on your role and your title. That's it Right, and the policy That's the policy, and it's based on your role, title and tenure. So like, well, you're just out of college or you've been in the field for 10 years and okay.

Yeah, exactly, it doesn't make sense. I just don't think it makes sense anymore. We have to change, and I think, by the way, i didn't say this at the beginning, but I know that we are now on the front lines of a people revolution. I know this, i predicted this again many years ago because I was starting to see it come. But people are no longer going to tolerate working for a business that doesn't think this way. If you think about any other revolution, the people that didn't adapt, they died, they didn't survive, and we are going to have to adapt as companies. I mean, his train has left the station like you're either going to do this stuff or you're not going to make it, and so my whole message now is around getting the word out, around how you do it, and one of the good things about what we do and probably my passion for this and you can probably tell I found my calling because I love this stuff But one of the things I really love doing is helping companies navigate all this, because we've navigated it at turning the corner. I mean, i try everything out, as you can already tell, even with my tiny team. I'm like, well, let's try it, i don't know how it's going to go, but if I can make it work, i know I can teach it to people. And so there have been some things that we've tried and I've been like, oh, that was a big fail. Interviewing based on your gut, that doesn't work. I have lots of examples of that sort of thing. So I can come authentically and be like, well, you can try it, but here's what I learned from it. Or you need to do, because I've experienced this. I've stayed in business for 12 years with no financial assistance whatsoever, like it's 100% funded by my customers, and so it's got to be working for people, otherwise we wouldn't be here today.

Yeah, definitely. I love the people revolution It is coming. We're just talking with a friend, actually, who's talking about using AI And how's that? also, you're either going to. There's the people that are going to use it as a tool and there are people that are going to refuse it and they're going to be like behind. This is not an option. It's not an. If It's, when are you going to adopt it? Because you're going to have to adopt it.

Figure it out, yep absolutely, and wow, how fun is all that. anyway, i think that stuff's awesome.

I think it's awesome.

It's super cool.

The technologist did me like my one moment of technology coming through.

See, you need an AI 20 years ago when you started your career in technology, to then keep you excited about technology.

You've worked on a lot of like management training. You work with small businesses, which definitely makes sense from Hey, let's get things started off on the right foot right. Small businesses really need to have the right kind of footprints and idea. It's a lot easier than changing some of the bigger ones later, or at least fixing mistakes later after you've grown into them. How did you shape that as your focus and what drove that?

Well, i just love. I mean, i know a lot about a lot of stuff. So if you think about the fact that I've been creating and collecting information about the work people do since I was at least eight years old, there's not a job I can't tell you about. There's not a job I can't describe, with pretty good knowledge, like a career path for it, because this is just my brain, like I might not remember your name or where you live, but I will remember what you did. I just remember that stuff about people. And so when I started turning the corner, i started as a solopreneur. I wanted to be a really helpful recruiter and help companies place great people, but then also help the individuals who are on the soul crushing experience of trying to find a job, because most recruiters are not helpful at all, but they know the most about what it takes to get through the hiring process. And so that's where I began was working with both individuals as well as with companies, and I didn't niche which. A lot of recruiters are in a specific industry, like they're in the creative industry or they're in technology, but I know so much about so many jobs I was like what's the point of that? So I just took on everything that came my way And, sure enough, i hit six figures within the first like six or seven months of being in business and was able then to start adding to the team. And as I added to the team that curiosity around like what are your strengths, what's your personality, what do you love doing? My first hire was a gal who hired. I hired to help me with my contracts and administrative stuff And within a couple of weeks realized she was an amazing writer And so I taught her how to write resumes And so she took over. Now we have a resume writing business Okay, great, right. So now she knows how to do that. Maybe a year later I was presenting I do a lot of keynote presenting and I had a gal come up to me afterwards and she said I don't know how and I don't know when, but I really want to come work for you. And so we got, went through the process of getting to know each other And she was an HR. She was an HR professional who also loved helping people. So now I had HR on my team And so it just kind of grew like that really organically through people's strengths, and now we have this just robust team of people who are recruiters I still I have five recruiters on my team And then we have senior HR consultants who think, like we all think similarly HR is not compliance, hr is not payroll, payroll or belongs in counting compliance, what belongs in legal like get that out of this conversation And you know really thinking about like, what can we do, what programs can we put in place to help people really thrive? And then I have a DEI consultant on the team for diversity, equity and inclusion And we also have training. So we have emerging leaders training as well as then management training for people who are in a supervisory role. And then we have leadership development training, like for leaders, ceos, leaders of leaders, who like have head trash like we all have it around. Are we the leader we need to be? So we have a program for that. And so now, if you think about it, like, oh, and we have a compensation specialist as well. So I mean we're like the whole HR team that we all had in our big companies, but it's outsourced, it's fractional, So a small business can actually afford to have that really robust team, whereas I don't know anyone else who's really doing that work.

You're actually focusing on the people side of HR. It's opposed to the accounting side of payroll, which is really nothing to do with people.

Right, i mean human, that word human, like when you use that word human in a sentence. having some humans over for dinner tonight, honey, i mean we don't use that word.

It's like the goofiest term, and then resources.

I'm like dirt oil, like resources, Exactly, I know when?

Yeah, so I'm like I always challenge my team.

We got to come up with a new, a new term, and we don't have one, but we do say it's the heart rate. It's the lifeblood of your business. Hr is the heart rate. It's like what keeps your business moving forward, especially through this people revolution.

For sure.

But it's not as glamorous as I want it to be.

It is still HR heart rate. There you go. It still works on the acronym for sure, but I do find it very well. I laugh when I'm not crying about how you have HR professionals and HR teams reporting to the CFO, because those two are definitely the same way of thinking.

Well now I will say, as now a business owner and being the Petrie dish of experimenting to learn, i can see the some value for the right CFO managing that team, because the people's side of the business is incredibly expensive when it's not managed. The problem is is that some CFOs are part of my condescending thing here but they're being counters and they're not actually thinking at all about productivity, about turnover, about the cost of onboarding, about what does it mean when you have a manager who is micromanaging people and shutting people down? They don't think like that. But, man, if there is an ROI calculator that we have, that we can show that really clearly. And I've experienced this as a leader, and so I had two years ago I had just added a new HR professional onto my team. She was ramping up, doing great work, and then, about a year after she joined, i added another HR professional And we do a really thorough job keeping track of all of our hours when we just implemented the system And I was able to say that when my the first gal, when the gal joined, we were just starting to track And then when he joined, we now had a year's worth of data and we could see how much he was billing. He was at half. So we were paying him his full salary but he was billing at half the rate she was. And then they reached a point where it tapered and it came together, but it was about six months in. So for six months just do the math on that Six months you're getting 50% productivity from a six-figure employee. Those numbers are staggering. That hits the bottom line immediately. And so if a CFO thinks like that, then great, have them report to and have them report to a CFO. But if you don't think like that, that's the worst possible thing you can do for your culture.

Yeah, that's really yeah, when people are seeing just as expenses and so you got to cut 3%, and I'm like, well, cut the people. Okay, not quite. That's simple because of what you just said Eventually you're going to have to rehire. I mean, besides the engagement, the productivity, the ones remaining, which goes down, but also you're going to have to rehire and then you're waiting the six months to a year to get back to where you were. That's expensive.

Yeah, and it feels like for me, i feel like most of the costs associated with people tend to be more on the executive team, where the executives are not doing the perform work, and whoever lays off executives, hardly ever, and it's like, actually that's where you kind of need to start. So if you really want to make that decision, good luck. You'll also reach your target much faster with a few executives with thousands of people, exactly, but not a conversation that's often had, unfortunately.

No.

Yeah, it's not how you find the people at the table. deciding to remove people at the table, yeah.

Let's lay ourselves off. So tell us about the name of your company. I love the name.

Well, after my friend Ginger told me, get off your pity party and go start a business, it kind of dropped into my brain around like well, maybe I could do this. And so it changed the way I was thinking. I wasn't in this victim mode or like when it pour me again, get my job, blah, blah, blah. Now suddenly I was like on the look out for opportunity. And I was driving home from somewhere and I was listening to the radio and there was a story about Malcolm X. An autobiography had just come out about him And they were talking about how he is always known as sort of the violent counter to Martin Luther King. But reality is is that there was a small period of time he was like that, but nobody ever let him turn the corner and be who he really was. It was the statement that was made And I thought, huh, that's interesting. And then, not kidding, like an hour later I was talking with a friend of mine who'd come into my office and shut the door and said I need to talk to you about my job because that's what I was known for. And he said they just put me in this role. I don't know anything about how to do this. They hired me for this. They would just let me turn the corner and be who I am. And I was like two times in a row. So I went home and I Googled turn the corner and it was taken for like $10,000 or something. And then I did turning the corner and that was like $15,000. And I was like LLCcom free. So I bought the LLB I filed for an EIN number, the next day And by Wednesday of that week, I owned a business. What do you know That's a great story. Yeah, it moved very quickly Yeah.

I really like it. I like the story. I love the story and the name of like turning. how can I turn the corner so that I can show up with my authentic self, so that I can be happy and not hate my job? And it is a turning the corner because we got to leave behind what we think we need to be doing or what we had the courage to do up until now, and not know what's on the other side.

Absolutely. Yeah, it can be scary for a lot of people and I get it And I've been there. I've been there a few times in my life of just not having any idea what I was going to do next and how I was going to get there. And that's another big thing we teach in our leadership training. Is that mindset around like am I a victim of this situation? Am I angry at this situation? Am I just going to acquiesce and sort of make the most of it but still feel like there could be more? Or am I going to get to a place where I see the opportunity everywhere and I see the win and the for every party? Because when you get your brain in that mode, man, it helps you overcome lots of stuff. And that's definitely what, what happened for me not intentionally in those days, but now intentionally, i can get myself to think like that because of the training, so it's great.

That's great training for sure, necessary. So what do people need to, or companies and organizations need to do to be ready for the people revolution?

Well, there's a lot. There's a starting point that we have, though, around helping leaders get really clear around their real values, and not the values that look great on the wall or sound great in a handbook that nobody's going to read, but it's actually like their real values And what do you really expect from your employees, And getting clear about that. And then what does that look like? How do you know you have that, what's the behavior you're going to see? And then you want to hire and fire and manage and train and govern and promote, compensate everything against those values, if they're strong and if they're real. And so that's where we start with is getting that clarity around that, because I think especially younger entrepreneurs and younger leaders just do not feel authentic, being able to do that. They don't feel like they can really lean in and say I want people to work really hard here, i want us to have an environment where we are kicking butt And I mean, some people want to work for that kind of a place, other people don't. Don't hire someone who doesn't really want that and you're going to expect that of them. And so that's step one, is getting really clear in the values. But then step two is being also honest around. What are the things that people are expecting, and we have an assessment on our website. That's free. We do get your email address, but don't worry, i'm going to bombard you, but it helps you. Assess the things that people are expecting now on a scale of A, b, c, d and F, because I have kids in school, so F is bad, a is great. I don't know why I have to explain this scale, but I always have to do this. We were all in school one time, right? Why isn't there an E? I don't know. There's no E. There's no E. But anyway and so this then gives you the guidelines for you to say, okay, here are the things I'm already doing well A's and B's And then here are the things that D's and F's that I'm not doing as an organization. Those D's and F's need to go on your strategic plan for the next two to three years to get that stuff done, because it's going to be required And it's all around. Are you training your managers to be great managers? Are you clear on your mission, your vision and your values? Are you clear on the goals and what you're expecting of your people? Do you have a career path for people to grow and develop? Is the work meaningful or not? Are you compensating? well, what does your benefits package look like? Because all the stuff that looks like pretty good common sense things, but a lot of people don't look at it so granularly on how they're doing it. So that's the second step, and then the third step is even the things you're doing really well question everything, flexibilize. Flexibilize to thrive, because probably down the road it won't be enough. You may have an A today, but even tomorrow you might end up with a D on it. You think about how quickly COVID changed everything for us And so it's just good to keep constantly questioning is this enough? Do I need to do more? How can I do more? So, essentially, those are the three main steps, but the big chunk of the work we do is that middle one around helping people get all this stuff done.

That's great. I really like those steps.

It seems like a huge tie in between the idea of flexibilizing and trying to get that triangle there too, because flexibilizing and to continue to question things, that takes quite a bit of energy and quite a bit of time. It's great And if you have the curiosity, have that ability, you will have more of that flexibility. But until you have some of that triangle in line, it's hard to have that energy and bring that to your job, be able to have that curiosity and flexibility every day. So things like those two sides of it really would feed each other.

They do, and I've also found that there are some leaders out there that just naturally think this way. I mean, i'm one of those people. I think about my team, my people, all the time, as well as the things that leaders think about. You know cash, where to find it, how to spend it It's always good stuff Products. Are they good? Are they strong enough? Do they need to be better? Are they competitive? What's happening? You know those things. And then my people. I mean I'm always thinking of those three things. Now, not every leader thinks that way, and so I always say to them you don't have to change, like you can't change the way your brain is necessarily wired in that way or takes a long time to change that. But somebody on your team needs to have that third component of thinking about your people and being ahead of those trends and like being wired, like me, to just be like so hungry to learn it and know it and understand it. And then, as a leader, your responsibility is to be open enough to take that feedback and say, all right, he's the expert, she's the expert, and actually you know listening to that and bringing in the policy or bringing in the programs that they're recommending. So somebody has to be thinking about it, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the leader, but some leaders do think about it, like I'm an amazing community of leaders that are like that, and so I know they. I'm not an anomaly.

They're not unicorns. That's good. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, lots of great things that our organizations need to be focused on, for sure, and leaders need to be learning and focused on, especially given what's happening. So last couple of questions for you. The first one is what's your definition of authenticity?

Authenticity, i think it's. It's when you can bring your full self into the room, but then appropriately sharing it. So some people, like my husband. He wants me to be 100% authentic. He doesn't want me to have any kind of a mask on, and so in that kind of a relationship where there's extreme amount of vulnerability and intimacy, being fully authentic is where you know I want to be. But I can't be that way with everybody. So in the rest of the other rooms I want to be able to be the appropriate version of myself with them and not feel like I have to hide behind it. And I think a lot of business communities are starting to see the value of that as well And that when we can be authentic and actually share the good and the bad to the right level, i think we can help each other a lot. And so I've discovered that for sure in my community and that when I kind of lay my cards on the table and say here's what I got it's not a very good hand, what do you got? And they're willing to put their hand down And I can say, can I have that one? And there's an exchange, then it's a really nice. It's a nice way of doing business, so I think that would be my definition.

That's a great way of doing business And it's such a great definition, especially because, it's true, there's a difference between showing up appropriately for the situation of the people in the room and showing up as our false self, so actually putting on a completely different persona. That goes against our integrity. But knowing that, like no, i can't show up the same way with every single person And I shouldn't expect myself to do that, Right.

Yeah, I see a lot of people miss under or and I think Bernay Brown has been great at helping pull this out as well in a more articulate way. But I mean, there are some people who are inauthentic or unvulnerable, or vulnerable in the wrong ways, And it doesn't actually build the relationships, it breaks them down. So you just have to be kind of mindful of that And so where can people find you? Oh gosh, all over, i have probably three good channels. I have a podcast now that's called How I Turned the Corner, where I'm interviewing leaders who are these heart led, thoughtful leaders who think about their people, and the results are being low turnover, great productivity, high profitability and voted as a best place to work. And so I'm talking with those leaders because I can say this stuff all day long, but it's fun to hear it from other people too. So it's one channel How I Turned the Corner. And then our website is turning the corner, llccom, and that's where you can see all the services we offer, including the training and the recruiting and the other pieces. And then I'm also a keynote speaker And I love to get on a stage and share this from the stage. So it's great to have the two of you to talk to in this 2D mode, but let's go 3D, and so, yes, yeah, and so that's KendraPresperocom, if anybody was wanting somebody to come in and talk to them or their teams about what we do and how we do it So awesome.

Yes, and we'll put all this in the show notes Great ways to find you. And yes, let's go 3D for sure.

I would love that.

Well, thank you, kendra, this was a great conversation And all things are very much needed and need to be talked about.

Well, thank you. It was great, great fun, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for listening to Uncover the Human. It's Yammer Podcast.

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