Coaching Through iPEC’s COR.E Dynamics: Social Influencers

This episode includes our interpretations of copyrighted works done by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching or iPEC. 

Alex Cullimore: Like one way that people like to look at these things is like introverted extroverted, and I don't really love that as a dichotomy, because I think there's times where I really get some energy out of being around some people.  

[INTRODUCTION]  

Alex Cullimore: Welcome to Uncover the Human, where every conversation revolves around enhancing all the connections in our lives.  

Cristina Amigoni: Whether that’s with our families, co-workers, or even ourselves.  

Alex Cullimore: When we can be our authentic selves, magic happens.  

Cristina Amigoni: This is Cristina Amigoni.  

Alex Cullimore: And this is Alex Cullimore.  

HOSTS: Let's dive in.  

Authenticity means freedom.  

Authenticity means going with your gut.  

Authenticity is bringing a 100% of yourself. Not just the parts you think people want to see, but all of you.  

Being authentic means that you have integrity to yourself.  

It's the way our intuition is whispering something deep-rooted and true.  

Authenticity is when you truly know yourself. You remember and connect to who you were before others told you who you should be.  

It's transparency, relatability, no frills, no makeup, just being.  

[EPISODE] 

Alex Cullimore: Hello, and welcome back to this episode of Uncover the Human we are continuing our COR.E Dynamics from iPEC series today and we are going on with the Social Influencer. So the influencers that change our energy based on the people that we are around and our social situations. So that is that's today. Where do want to start on social? 

Cristina Amigoni: social is a huge, it's a hugely influential influencer --  

Alex Cullimore: easy to say 

Cristina Amigoni: That's speaking apparently, so so huge. 

Alex Cullimore: Influencer influences social interactions to 

Cristina Amigoni: Actually communication is a big, big part of the social influencer, influencer good again, I can't say that word, I'm gonna stop saying it. I was actually just thinking about it. And there's a huge amount of energy and performance that we get, depending on the people we have around in the moment, but also constantly, today is quote, day, just n case you didn't know that. 

And another quote that always resonates with me is, you know, you are you're the sum of the five people that are closest to you. And so that's, that's what the social influencer is all about is like, how are you influenced and where you want to achieve and who you are as a person and how you perform by the people around you and you the human environment around you? 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. So we can consider this from a few different angles, it comes down to things like what is your desired amount and type of social interaction? This is where what do you work best in social situations? And what's your attitude towards doing that? And how much are other people influencing you? If you have enough catabolic energy around you, for example? How much does that affect your ability to perform? And what can you do about that, and where your ability to generally communicate with others goes into this one in a huge way, because that is that is your connection points. 

Your ability to communicate verbally, non verbally, however, with the people that are around you, is going to dramatically influence your feeling of connection, belonging, ability to change things, autonomy, all of these these key crucial human influences and motivations. What do we have in terms of a support system that's available to us? And how can we be accountable? These are all aspects of our social influencer. And just a point of conscious choice that we tend to have just to help get our minds on this. 

One of the difficulties of looking at social influencers is that it's very easy to feel like it's other people, right? It's other people's fault, or I can't I can't do this because this person's in the way or I can't do this because that and there might be times where somebody is an obstacle. So it comes back down as it does in every coaching conversation to what can you do? What do you what can you personally do about this. 

And there's an idea in COR.E Dynamics as well as a lot of coaching in general, is what you kind of have five categories of options, you can remain victim to the situation, you can leave the situation, you can accept the situation you say it is what it is, you can try and change the situation. Or you can change your perspective on the situation. And all of those are viable options and can be viable in different situations. But when it comes back to something like social, it's easy to get caught up believing it's something externally forcing us. But we still have to come back to what can we do to consciously choose for ourselves, how we want to shape this? 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, that’s a very important piece and looking at our options, and realizing that we actually do have choice. It's very difficult, because then we have to well live with that choice, and living with a choice, especially if we realize it's a situation that we can't change. And we need to leave, that opens up a whole can of worms of grieving and losses and self-shame, and all sorts of other darkness that we may not be ready to face or what we're never probably ready to face, but we may not be willing to face. 

Alex Cullimore: This is why it's such a heavy influencer when we know that there's something we have to change and it feels like it's difficult. That's going to be really challenging. That's why it's easy to put it on somebody else's like they're the ones causing them or to in reality, our choice then is, the thing that's difficult is facing all of the potential emotions that are going to come with making a choice on this or having to commit to something that might be different than what has already existed. And it's not to underplay that that's going to happen for everybody. But it is a good thing to be aware of. So that we can know. That's why this influences energy so much. 

And on the flip side, it can also influence it in a very positive way, when we know we have a lot of people around that support us that aren't judging us that have our best interests at heart, it'd be much easier to make decisions, take risks, go do something we might not have done otherwise and feel like we have a safety net, we have support, we're able to continue to move because we have that around us. So that can be a very positive boom to our supplies of energy, whereas another in other ways it might start to drain some of that energy that we have. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, indeed. So shall we get coaching? 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, let's jump right in. The ever present question. Who's going to coach first?  

Cristina Amigoni: Up to you.  

Alex Cullimore: All right, I'll jump in and coach then let's talk a little bit about, 

Cristina Amigoni: I always leave it up to you and I never liked the answer.  

Alex Cullimore: This is a fascinating turn of events. I truly would be okay. By the way, if you'd like to swap this, we can swap this around, because I can't remember what we did last time. Either way, that's been too long. 

Cristina Amigoni: Go ahead, it's gonna be my turn, eventually, I'm accepting the situation as it is. I can't change it. 

Alex Cullimore: Before we jump immediately into coaching, let's talk about an anabolic team. What would be your definition of anabolic team be? It’s kind of bridging from definition into coaching. 

Cristina Amigoni: Actually, I'm gonna take a tangent on another definition -- 

Alex Cullimore: Good start.  

Cristina Amigoni: Before we even get to anabolic team. So let's define anabolic. It's been a while. And while it's a word that catabolic and anabolic, it's a word that we understand. They're not commonly used in everyday life in most people's lives. And so anabolic and catabolic energy are part of the energy leadership, that model that iPEC presents. And they talk about how catabolic energy is the it's really the threat response energy. And so it is more destructive. It's more draining, it is absolutely necessary, where we are when we are responding to a threat, and we need to react fast. But it's very difficult to perform and live in that energy long term. Because it's so draining and powerful. 

Alex Cullimore: You can think of it as like fight or flight just to it's they're still important, it's important to have these and catabolic gives you energy in the short term, there's like fight or flight, if you're running away, if you're hiding away, you're protecting yourself, you're preserving energy for the future, if you're fighting, you're using energy to get out of a situation, it's giving you the energy to do that all of these are still energies that can be used, it's just that on a long term, they tend to be destructive or exhausting, or just start to pull away from our overall ability to build. Which brings us to anabolic. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. Just wanted to get that as the example. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, very good example. You know, cortisol is a big, catabolic type of hormone, and energy. And we all know we can't, we can't live on that that can be destructive for our body, if we have too much of it. And so anabolic on the other hand, is the energy where we are past the threat response, we're past the amygdala, and the fight or flight. And we are able to look at helping, helping others supporting, compromising, I mean, the compromising is still pretty close to the catabolic has quite an amount of catabolic energy, but it's better than just full on leaving or fighting or freezing. So it's compromising energy, it's collaboration, energy, it's supportive. 

And that's where things can actually flourish. That's where growth can happen. That's when things can move forward. That's when we perform better, because we are calm from an energy point of view. But we have higher views and and more much more open view of the world. If we think about I look at always thinking about a cave, catabolic energy, we're closed into our cave. And that's it. 

The outside world is an enemy in some way, whether it's an enemy that makes us want to stay in that cave, or it's an enemy that we want to fight we're still seeing the outside world as a cave, we have a very limited tunnel view, which is the way it should be when we are in a threat response state. Anabolic energy is when we see everything. That's when the that's when the world starts opening up and we see possibilities. That's where ideas come from, problem solving, collaborating with other all those things can happen in catabolic energy levels. 

Alex Cullimore: Agreed. And the other way to think about catabolic and anabolic that I sometimes like to refer to is that catabolic is in a very specific way it's a destructive type of energy. It literally is breaking things down so that you can have energy so you think about things like adrenaline you think about things like that there's there's a breaking down of things like muscle tissue so that you have energy, it's important that we are able to access this because there are situations throughout situations where we need that anabolic is this energy created through like more more building and more constructive ways. 

And I don't love using the words destructive and constructive because it going to have so much judgment but I mean that in a very literal sense in that there is kind of a destruction that is giving energy versus a construction that is giving energy, not in the positive or negative way. Because these really don't have judgment to them, you have to have all of them. And they are necessary in all kinds of different situations they are, they're not good, they're not bad they are and being able to choose between them is more helpful. So just to redefine and really state that all the words that we use can feel like judgments or can feel like they have a negative or positive connotation. And it's, it's important just to reiterate that these aren't about being negative or positive, because they are just necessary. 

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. So, should we go back to coaching? 

Alex Cullimore: Now that we've defined that let's talk a little about anabolic team, tell me a little bit about what makes an anabolic team in your mind, what comes to mind when I say anabolic team, I guess, too. 

Cristina Amigoni: So what comes to mind for me, an anabolic team, for my own influencer, for my own experience, is a team that, actually I've have thought about this but a long time ago. And it's probably changed. But I would say empathy is a big part of that, whether it's a team or even individuals, but individuals that really approach things with empathy, approach life with empathy, so, so an innate desire to see everybody else's point of view and my point of view, and not just see it, but understand it and validate it in the sense of not judging it. 

So I guess non judgmental, non judgmental team that has a lot of curiosity and empathy, and that's how they operate around me, that's where I thrive. Because then we can build together, there's a lot of curiosity in in those moments when we are in in low places in, you know, more catabolic places that for that, for that matter. Because of something that happens, we are able to share what's going on. And we receive that support and empathy as a response as opposed to judgment or well I’ll just be done with it. Or we know we have to bottle it in because it's not a safe space. 

And so in other big, big word, I would say psychological safety and anabolic team is a very psychological safe team. For me, and authenticity. It's a team where I can I can I am accepted as myself, and not just through words, but through actions and constant actions. And so I never have to feel they have to put a mask on or I have to say seeing things differently or do something else and I have to withhold, I'm not a fan of having to withhold it. I feel like I do it. And those are the relationships that don't work out. When I feel like I can't, I can't share. 

Alex Cullimore: It sounds like there might be a huge time between curiosity and lack of judgments and then withholding if you see, does it feel like there's a connection there? And if so, what is that to you? 

Cristina Amigoni: I would say yes, there's a big connection, because I think that I judge myself enough for anybody else to not have to join in. And so when I'm in a constant battle with not judging myself so much and not feeling like I'm not good enough, it helps me tremendously when I don't have an echo from the people around me, that will continue to say, I'll continue but you know, that will bring up like, well, you know, you can't do it that way and, or do you need to be pushed, or it's like, the minute I start feeling that I'm not accepted as myself, that's when I shut down. And that's when I spent so much energy trying to not feed myself critic, my inner critic. 

Alex Cullimore: Absolutely makes sense. self-critic can be especially powerful, and there's no need to add, I don't know supporting voices to the other author voices in that chorus. 

Cristina Amigoni: I don’t need any backup singers. Yeah, it's loud enough. In my head, thank you. 

Alex Cullimore: It's a good way to describe it, no background singers. So in that there's a part of the social influencer also understanding some amount of accountability, right? There can be productive partnerships. So what do you see as the line for you where you know that it's kind of you mentioned, one of the examples is like, you need to be pushed, that's a pretty direct statement and carries a lot of assumptions if it's not qualified. And at the same time, you're talking about being able to build and create with your anabolic team. So what helps you understand and differentiate yourself where that line is of a constructive, boosting, push quote, unquote, and something that becomes more limiting less anabolic push, 

Cristina Amigoni: I would say language is a big part of that. And so the words that are used are a big part of it. Like I, I feel like I push myself a lot of very frequently, I get bored easily. And so which means the opposite side of that coin, is that I you know, I'm constantly looking for something new, some new experience, something else to learn. And so the language used that judges me for not being that person. That's the most triggering That assumes that my comfort zone is not doing new things, not experimenting, not learning that pushes a big button because I do know that I'm not. I'm constantly moving, and I'm constantly getting out of my comfort zone. 

Yes, I do thrive when I'm pushed and need to be pushed, no other way to get me to go there. But believing in me and saying, like, hey, this, this, this happened, actually, I've had some great bosses that have done that, where they don't give me a new opportunity that's completely outside of my comfort zone, because I need to be pushed. So that's not the goal. The goal is because they believe in me, and so the first communication is like you will do great, I do believe that you can really make a difference in this spot. And I know it's not something you've done before, and I'm here to support you. So let me know how I can do that. Are you willing to take it on? And I don't think I've ever said no, when it stated that way. And so first of all, like, what's the goal? Like, where am I going? 

And so a very clear stated goal from it from a team perspective of like, you know, social perspective of like, this is the goal of trying to do this, and a recognition of my abilities and recognition that I am good enough as today. And here's a growth opportunity, and how can I be there in that growth opportunity, as opposed to where you are today is not good enough, which is why you need to be pushed. Okay, I, first of all, I have nowhere to go. I don't understand what I'm pushing myself to. And second of all, why am I not good enough today? So that's where I get stuck. 

Alex Cullimore: Absolutely makes sense that ties in exactly with what you're saying about the anabolic team is non judgmental when you use phrases like, oh, it's because you're not good enough that you need to be pushed. That's that feels like it's obviously carrying implicit judgments. There's a judgement that it is not enough, there is some there's some line that is not being met some bar that is not being met. So that would obviously be painful. And it's a great delineation between what is what is it progressive, growth oriented push, and what is more destructive, or can create resistance defensiveness, and that makes sense with what you've talked about previously on the podcast about like not liking to feel invisible, not liking to feel like you don't exist. And if that people aren't addressing what who you are and what you are now, it would be threatening to that that as well. 

And you mentioned that if there's a button to be pushed, it's because there's a button there. And so you if you think about it being a button push that somebody is telling you, you have to do this or that you that you need to change, to go back into your curious and empathy and what would be a curious or empathetic response to that, to maybe help build awareness that you do exist or build what you feel like the story is that's coming up in their minds or about you? 

Cristina Amigoni: It's a good question. I say, an empathetic and curious response is to understand where they're coming from, like, where, what do you see what's the opportunity? And so instead of seeing it as a judgment of who I am seeing it as an opportunity, with potentially triggering language, but seeing like, okay, and like so what's, what's the opportunity? Where do I see the opportunity here? Now, will I be in a completely non judgmental state to be able to listen to that no button is pushed. And it's a very big button. So I would say they're also the first thing to do is the awareness and the and admittance admitting that it is a button and say, like, hey, like, I, that's a button for me, when I'm told you need to be pushed. So I'm not sure where it comes from. So illuminate me. 

Alex Cullimore: A curious space. You also mentioned that it’s so triggering, obviously, you're not gonna be able to maybe immediately walk into that, and why even if you give yourself a break, and you can, like, disarm the trigger for a bit and get more curious about it, it's walking back into potentially triggering situation. So if you think about protecting yourself and giving yourself a fair shake at making that kind of stab and getting into that curious space, knowing that it could have some triggers, again, in the next follow up conversation, what are some ways you can protect yourself and give yourself the space to be able to live in your values in a potentially triggering situation? 

Cristina Amigoni: I would say is actually go ask for help from my anabolic team. 

Alex Cullimore: Hey, there it is. That's pretty cool. Way to circle that one around. 

Cristina Amigoni: Well and that really, really comes through that's why an anabolic team is it's a rare thing. And it takes a lot of effort to build this because it's the team where you know, you can go and share Hey, this is what's happening. And I don't know that I know how to deal with this and respond to it in the way that I want to the in the way that I want to respond. And so the anabolic team is the team that would help me go through that. And if anybody on the parabolic team provides catabolic language, then they're going to be off the team very quickly. That's what I'm gonna go to step five, which is change the team and find a better team. 

Alex Cullimore: All right. So as I kind of dismount off of this coaching iteration to go bridge between both your self-reflection and some advice, if you're looking at potentially changing a team, and we all have times we have to change teams or just through natural processes, everybody changes enough that even if it was working at some point, it might be different. What's the advice you would give yourself and or other people in facing that kind of change? 

Cristina Amigoni: That's a big change. That is a very difficult change. 

Alex Cullimore: It doesn't have to be all encapsulating. 

Cristina Amigoni: That is a very difficult change. I will say the advice that I constantly give myself is, yes, I have responsibility and accountability in this. And no, it's not a reflection on my self worth, we will constantly but we've all changed the people that are closest to us, that team constantly changes. And the beginning of that change, at least for me, it's always been very hard, because it's where the inner critic feeds off of wall, you're not good enough to have a friend that lasts more than x years, or you're not good enough to have a friend that you get close to, and then they start pushing you away. So those with us, it's not their fault, it's your fault. It's because you're not good enough to be a human with friends, or humans with teams and a support team around and an anabolic team around you is, you know, it's all because of you.  

So my my default is really to look at me and not blame others. And what I am been working on, while constantly and I'll be working on pretty much for the rest of my life, is that it's not about blame. What if it isn't about blame? What if it isn't about blaming me or others, it's just not about blame. It's about growth. We all grow in different ways, or, you know, some people grow faster, and depending on the measures than others, but we we all evolve, we're constantly evolving, we're not static beings.  

And with that, our, the way we look at the world, the way we look at people or viewpoints or perspectives, the needs that we have as as humans that need to interact with other humans change. And so it's a natural process that relationships end, and new ones begin. And so once I’m able to accept the end without judgment and finding blame for it, then I'm also able to look back and think like, well, I've done it before, I've created a an anabolic team support team around me in the past. So evidence says I can do it again. 

Alex Cullimore: Absolutely great. I appreciate that. I think for kind of bridging kind of between some advice and that because I think that's great self-reflection on what's important to you. And what you understand is like the if I can release myself of the idea that it's about blame or about some personal judgment, that gives me the space to realize all of the rest of the important things, which is I can do this, again, it's natural that there's changes in humanity, we’re going to have this evolution throughout our lives. And I'm part of that evolution. And this is my next evolution maybe or this is this is what I think needs to happen next. And looking back at the past is a great way of saying like, I have done these things before and it may be painful, scary, as it always is to trust the process to jump into the next unknown, but I have more trust and can have some trust that I can get to that other side. 

Cristina Amigoni: Still hard. 

Alex Cullimore: Oh, yeah. 

Cristina Amigoni: Doesn't make it easy. But it usually makes it worth it, especially when you're able to build a more and more and more anabolic team each way so that the evolution of which team you build also is it's an evolution to to look at and celebrate. 

Alex Cullimore: There is a bit of a virtuous cycle in that you just start to build your anabolic team, it gives you the support to make sure you can continue to build a different and or continuing anabolic team continually evolving anabolic team. 

Cristina Amigoni: And also the releasing the judgment that it's about X amount of years. It's like well, if you're, you know, friend for 50 years, and you're great friends, like is it is time? What determines how successful or how supportive or how great a friendship is? Is it? Is it time? Or is it something else? 

Alex Cullimore: One last awareness question, then what would be things you'd want to put on as a good evaluation of relationship? You've mentioned some of them with the anabolic team stuff, but just to what are some ways that you would want to evaluate the quality of a relationship, a friendship? 

Cristina Amigoni: I really think he goes back to authenticity. He's like, if I can be myself, and I can feel supported, and myself as myself, pretty much all the time, like I you know, when I think about my own anabolic team, I don't think of anyone that actually has made the cut, or has stayed on the team that has flipped flopped on that. Like, it's not like, oh, well, I accept you as you sometimes. And then some other times, well, maybe not like that's an automatic de-teaming for me.  

And so it has to be consistent is that consistent showing up as accepting me, as me without masks with the armor with my own demons? And so it's more than just accepting me it's accepting me and my demons, somebody that can stick around through my after I've gone through my lowest period and still be He empathetic and curious and supportive, that who makes it that's what makes it on the team and stays on the team. If it's just about the ups and the downs, that's not gonna work, because that's not reality, if I have to figure out what to say, because I can't see things in a certain way, or what to bring up, that's out, it's done. It's very hard to come back from that day, I have to be able to share what's going on and my full self, no matter how ugly it is. 

Alex Cullimore: Also, the quality of relationships is inversely proportional to the weight of the armor, you have to carry around.  

Cristina Amigoni: Yes, exactly.  

Alex Cullimore: That's a great way of looking at it.  

Cristina Amigoni: It's very selective and small team.  

Alex Cullimore: And that's also absolutely natural. Because if you want to be authentic, it's it works for some people, because that also is their authenticity. You can't expect it to work for everybody. And the attempts to make it work beyond that is a fool's errand. If we believe that it's about having a quantity of friends, as well, that can be very difficult way to think that we should have like a massive anabolic team. It’s unlikely to be able to, like support just timewise when you support that close of a relationship on that many fronts. 

Cristina Amigoni: You can't. You know, it's like Brene Brown says, it's like, you know, take out a two by two piece of paper and write down where the people whose opinion actually matters, and write it in pencil.  

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. 

Cristina Amigoni: Because it's gonna change. 

Alex Cullimore: For me, it's my six cats, it's the opinions that matter, and they will make me know it. 

Cristina Amigoni: And is it written in pencil? Because the number changes? 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, it's kinda has to be a pencil at that point. 

Cristina Amigoni:Should we flip? 

Alex Cullimore: All right, let's flip it. 

Cristina Amigoni: Alright, so part of social influencers awareness is and being able to perform at the highest is understanding the desire amount, and type of social interaction that works best for you. So what does that look like? 

Alex Cullimore: Oh, man, that is a an answer that is loaded with context. There's so many different shades of gray, I feel like in this. 

Cristina Amigoni: That's why we're gonna get into the other pieces are the social influencers. 

Alex Cullimore: Oh man. 

Cristina Amigoni: I thought I picked an easy one. 

Alex Cullimore: It's not that it's not easy. It's just that I'm trying to narrow the amount of edge cases I'd have to write into this. But one way people like to look at these things is like introverted, extroverted, and I don't really love that as a dichotomy, because I think there's times where I really get some energy out of being around some people. And there's times and usually, no matter the person, there's a limit to that, where at some point, I'm like, okay, I'm beat. I've been around too many people, even if it's people that I feel very comfortable with, I'm just okay, I need a break. And I need some alone time.  

So that's why I ended up with so many different edges in gray areas and this one for myself, because there's, I don't just fall into extroverted introverted, I don't just like big groups, small groups, like there are times like facilitating is sometimes really energizing, which is kind of a two way conversation with a full room of people and helping to present some information. And I want to see how it's reflected back. And I can get a lot of energy out of doing that because there's something really exciting about being there helping people like open their awareness to something totally new. And they're always helping me understand totally different angles of how it's being presented well and, what it means to them what it could mean, there's there's just thrilling curiosity being explored in that situation. 

In a lot of other situations where it's that many people, if I'm at like a networking event, if there's a ton of people, I'm going to be drained in like, 45 minutes. So it's not going to take long before I'm like, okay, this is fun. I can put on a nice face, but on the inside my battery's like screaming, I'm out. I'm done. I can't do this anymore. 

Cristina Amigoni: I know, that's about 44 more minutes that I have in me for this. 

Alex Cullimore: Which is why between the two of us, I'll go do some of those. 

Cristina Amigoni: Which is why I send you. Alex will be there. I'll be hiding behind him or next to him. 

Alex Cullimore: For a brief 10 minutes I’m like this is fun. I'm meeting people. That's interesting. I don't know this person. Then, like 10 minutes later, I'm still in a conversation like that. Okay, well, I gotta go. I don't know if that's just my own personal distractibility I don't, but at some point that energy drains for me. 

So I think I do enjoy being around people there. I particularly enjoy one on one conversation, I think is probably one of my favorite, more energizing ways of communicating when it's with somebody that I can really trust and have lack of judgment. And they're curious, and I'm curious, and we both feel like we're on the same page of this is a partnership of curiosity. And being an analyst where we're willing to be we're willing to do this. That's where it's particularly energizing. So that's a good part of the pie chart of meandering I could do on that answer. How much that answers the original question. 

Cristina Amigoni: It definitely, it definitely answers the original question. And so it definitely sounds like you have enough awareness to understand what kind of situations can have more people or less people or what kind of energy can be in those situations. And it also sounds like the main main difference that at least I heard is anabolic group, less or unknown anabolic group. And so even on a one on one is it's an anabolic one one not a catabolic, one on one to choose, and the anabolic aspect of facilitating and so when you think about your anabolic gang, team, support group, what makes it so? 

Alex Cullimore: So, I was actually thinking about this recently, and in terms of what actually kind of backed into this when we're thinking about values and personal values, because what I started to realize is some of the things that are really inherently that I value a lot. Some of those things are what I have as core values.  

And so when I think about an anabolic team is people who share some of those and where I see that reflection, and to that end, the ones that I really appreciate are true curiosity, like people who know that they don't know things, know that there's a limit to their own knowledge or just curious to know some more than one to know better ways of going about, especially when it comes to topics like how to live and how to be humans and how to like, make something work in that fashion.  

That's the kind of curiosity I really, I really enjoy and having that genuine, non judgmental space. And I see those two is tied, because I think there's a good a good argument to be made for judgment being the other side of curiosity, other side of the spectrum from curiosity. So the more people are into that curious zone, where they're able to really dive into something and just they want to know more about it, they're able to like pull in abstract themes, just having that that kindness, that compassion, and that curiosity are all really important parts of what I would consider like an anabolic team. And I this curiosity, the number one thing would be nonjudgement. But I like saying curiosity better? Because I think that is the that is what I would define as nonjudgement. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah that makes perfect sense. And actually, to tie it back to your original answer to the first question. It also can explain why it a large group that could be a participants in a facilitation classroom is it's more energizing than a networking group. Because if we think about the point of being in a, in a training or in a in a program, as participants, in theory is the curiosity. And so while maybe not all people will be curious with every single word that is said in that room, the general environment is to be there to be curious and learn. And so the learning becomes the goal. It's really the goal of the group. And it's the energy of the group that curiosity is, if it's especially a group of curious people, it is very present.  

And in a networking event, to put a huge judgment on networking events. It is about judgment, actually, because it is that you know, let's work the room, say your title, and where you work and where you graduated, if it's that type of networking event, and then judge the person or be judged to be able to stay or move on and choose to be curious. But it's all about judgment first and curiosity second, for the most part, I'm sure there's people that go to networking events, they're very curious. But because the networking event point is to meet as many people as possible. Generally, you don't have time for curiosity, you have time for judgment, that then leads to curiosity. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, it's like a prime, like, let's go evaluate this, are you worth continuing to talk to you because I got 20 other people I could talk to. And that's that evaluation points is challenging. And I guess that does present a potentially great reframe, for being in networking events of like, of like hey, this is a chance to share and then to be curious about what else is out there. Because like the way we have continued to approach our work, we find ways to be more human about things, which can be in a lot of ways a lot of things we talk about. And hopefully things like this podcast are a great example of this, we have ways to help people access new ideas and ways of thinking about that.  

And so maybe a networking event can be a way to both share some of that and share some of the the what I find to be valuable about a kind of art approach and some excitement I have in sharing that just as I think it can do a lot for people. And it's really exciting to see it when it really takes off. So maybe a reframe, is to realize that there's a lot of things to be curious about in other people and what how they're approaching things as well as be curious about how we can present what we do. And this is this is something it's very exciting to share, because there's some value in it. And I don't, I don't do this because I'm just trying to crank out hours, I do this because there's something genuinely interesting and valuable to me in it. And so I get something that thing out of that that's totally different. And maybe if I reframe that networking events, and try and let go of some of the inherent feeling that I have, whether it's true or not, that it is kind of a judgement, space and evaluation space, maybe that is a good path forward to expanding that for 45 minutes to an hour. 

Cristina Amigoni: Or maybe it's 10. What would it look like if the curiosity was also and the judgement was on yourself too? 

Alex Cullimore: That’s a good question. I think, I guess it can be more curious about how I show up in those situations and what what is a good way to kind of approach people and how can I both be curious about them and be curious about ways in which we share our philosophies, not because I will want them to people to understand that they'll all go buy our product, just think but just to be curious in like, hey, what are what are ways that people can resonate with this because there's just something interesting about seeing how people respond to it, which just goes back to kind of the facilitator idea, when people respond to the ideas that you're putting out there, you have a different angle, whether you're going to take it on board and change messaging or not, you have a different angles of understanding on how it's received and what you might do differently in the future on how you might say this in a different way. And just just to help people connect to what what I find as the the real value behind doing work like this and approaching people on a particularly human level. 

Cristina Amigoni: That's sounds like definitely a more uplifting and anabolic way to look at networking events. Alex Cullimore: Yeah.  

Cristina Amigoni: How does it feel? 

Alex Cullimore: Feels better. It’ll be a little easier. And I also have to drag myself out of the house. And it's still gonna be a real like personal kicking and screaming, dragging myself out by my collar moment. But I'll get there. And as long as I can keep that as an intention, it will be a lot less trepidation going in there, and a lot less having my antenna up waiting for judgments from the other participants. 

Cristina Amigoni: That makes sense. Yes, you still have to have that individual awareness of where you're at, from a social point of view, your own social meter, in a way. And so if you think in an anabolic team, and how it's it's that nonjudgmental, curious team, how do you recognize when that's lacking? And what do you do? Sorry, stacking questions. How do you recognize when it's lacking? Let's start with one. 

Alex Cullimore: Great questions. And I think you're actually tied those that question are actually tied for me, they recognize that because of what I do, I start to shut down, I started to reach out less when I feel like there's some kind of judgment in the air or like, oh, I can't express it this way. Because I don't think it's gonna come across. I think I have a long habit of being pretty avoidant in that. 

So I immediately go to avoidance and not getting into just even if they might not have even meant it that way. They might not have been judgmental. But when I start to feel that or feel like I can't express some, some that curiosity, I can't just be open, I'll start to pull away and I'll start to step back, or I'll start to be really, I'll notice things like, I'm going to take way too long to figure out how to respond to somebody because oh God, how are they gonna react to this. And then I'm like, working over wording that, at some level, like was already done an hour ago, but I'm still kind of hashing over it or something, before I send an email out or something like, it's something like that, where I start to see those resistance points where I'm stepping away, that's when I know that there's something off. And that is what I do. 

Cristina Amigoni: Excellent self-awareness. So it sounds like in the in our scale from remaining a victim to it to changing your perspective of it. You land around the leaving, leaving it. 

Alex Cullimore: It's kind of an inverting leaving, or a very passive leaving anyway of like, Yeah, I'm kind of like already stepping back. And it's not helpful, but it's just, it's already what's happening. 

Cristina Amigoni: How do you determine when a different way of approaching the relationship is worth? So maybe it's passively leaving may not be a blanket way to deal with all of them? 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, no, that's a good question. Some of it's kind of a gut feeling. And then also going back over the relationship and knowing like were there times where it was like it was available to be authentic, where it was available to feel comfortable and to feel they and I think I didn't mention it as part of like, why evaluating a team, but that comes out from me and not judgment and curiosity. There is some authenticity to that. Because I think allowing myself to be authentic and when seeing the that other people and some of the things I truly appreciate and helps that anabolic and when I don't, it's that same way as you were describing it. Like the less armor that I have, the more I know, it's more quality relationship.  

So if I'm feeling like there's a reason to kind of start passively stepping, where I start to recognize that I'm just doing it because it's such a defaulted habit, then it's worth going back and looking back at the relationship over time and being like, is it true that he's always been this way? Or is it true that they were there signs beforehand that maybe there was there was sticking points? Or am I just like, really reacting to this one just happened to be a button that was pushed, and I'm really reacting to this one event, and that's pushing me away. 

And that has been aided by the fact that I've been doing a lot of for for years now. Because it's just kind of as a common reaction, I think that I have that I can recognize and be curious that there might be a different way to do this, that maybe I'd be I'd be better served or just I would like to experiment with doing something more productive as difficult as that is internally to accept when the default is just to like, okay, get yourself out of this. There's no point in trying to change this. It won't change.  

Cristina Amigoni: Very good awareness and self-reflection. Definitely. So unpacking that can take a long time. So I do have a last question that's not related. So this is not a very coaching-like situation. 

Alex Cullimore: All good. That would be like an hour session. Driving down that road. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, there’s a lot to unpack there. What can you accomplish when you have an anabolic team around you? 

Alex Cullimore: Not to turn that around, but what can't you accomplish? If you have like that true anabolic team, where you got that curiosity, you've got people who just want to see things built up or curious about whatever they're doing. They are really into like making something better for people and they're, they want to help you you want to help them you just at that point, I feel like when you read we get into that it's I don't even have the time start to think about what's being accomplished or not accomplished. We're just doing things that feel like we're moving in the right direction excited to be doing this.  

So when it comes to that, that's why cheekily, I do feel like it is like, what can't you accomplish? Because that point, like, I'm not even like thinking about accomplishment, almost, once it gets to that. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, that's a great point, a very non judgmental for is for that matter of not even looking at things as accomplished or not accomplished. And you mentioned being as being a big part of how you recognize you have an anabolic team. So it's it's more than sounds like it's more about being than doing.  

You know, another thing that ties back to the point on some of the answers that you provided earlier is not feeling like you're just clocking hours in a job. And so then it just becomes about being, being in a job, not doing o'clock hours. So what have you accomplished there on anabolic teams? 

Alex Cullimore: I think last year and a half is pretty good example of all things we've we've accomplished pretty well, just within like Siamo, but we've we've built that I've now built going through coaching, but met a bunch of people there that are great at like, learning together and been building new things and just being curious about what we can do and what we can do with this and how we can help people with this.  

But things like the Leadership Program, which we built and then have continued to evolve. And that's one a good example of like nothing like there's a point of accomplishment or not, because it's it's doing, we're just doing improving this because there's something that can be done. And when we could tweak this, we could change this and, and that it doesn't feel like rework, it doesn't feel like we're melting down and building up whatever it is, it's just continuing to move on that. And it is both being and doing at the same time, but not doing for the sake of a specific finish line. It's doing because it feels important to be doing it. 

Cristina Amigoni: Very powerful to be in that state. Alright, that's all the questions I have. Because unless we want another hour to unpack. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah, that's a good one. And these are, these are good examples of the self awareness to go look at when you think about social influencers, because it is back down to what is actually making us uncomfortable here, and what would we like to choose to do about it? And you know, if we were met with resistance, what's what's the next choice is at some point, maybe there's enough resistance for like, I have to take a break from this, or I do have to leave the situation. And that's not there's nothing wrong with approaching it that way. There's nothing wrong with that being the answer. It's just about being conscious of why you're doing it. So you can feel comfortable with that. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, for sure. And if you think about the social circle, and the people, you know, that will allow you to perform better, to accomplish more, if that's a measure to just it's not about accomplishing. It's about being who can you be capital B, capital E with? That's your anabolic team, as opposed to who are you performing for? Who are you doing for? Because it's all about what you do. And that's to avoid negative judgment. If you can just be, you found your team. 

Alex Cullimore: Yeah. And you think of that think about performance. No wonder it's an energy drink. Because performing is you have to put energy into that if you're performing something that's not you, you're putting energy into something that's not you, you're right, that will become an energy drain to you being able to do the things and be yourself capital BE. Be that and so that it makes sense that that would be tied directly to what's giving you or taking away your energy. 

Cristina Amigoni: Indeed. Well, thanks for listening. I think next we're going to move into disciplines. 

Alex Cullimore: Time for disciplines, done with influencers. 

Cristina Amigoni: Yes.  

[END OF EPISODE]  

Cristina Amigoni: Thank you for listening to Uncover the Human, a Siamo Podcast.  

Alex Cullimore: Special thanks to our podcast operations wizard, Jake Lara, and our score creator, Rachel Sherwood.  

Cristina Amigoni: If you have enjoyed this episode, please share, review and subscribe. You can find our episodes wherever you listen to podcasts.  

Alex Cullimore: We would love to hear from you with feedback, topic ideas, or questions. You can reach us at podcast@wearesiamo.com, or on our website, wearesiamo.com, LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook. WeAreSiamo is spelled W-E-A-R-E-S-I-A-M-O.  

Cristina Amigoni: Until next time, listen to yourself, listen to others and always uncover the human.  

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